Salvation is according to the will of God

@TibiasDad

An imperative is not a command, it is a necessity.
Click to expand...
Definition of "Imperative"
Corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers

.https://www.blueletterbible.org/help/greekverbs.cfm#voice
 
brightfame52 said:
@TibiasDad


Definition of "Imperative"
Corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers

.https://www.blueletterbible.org/help/greekverbs.cfm#voice
Click to expand...
Your link doesn’t work…

Doug
 
brightfame52 said:
@TibiasDad


Definition of "Imperative"
Corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers

.https://www.blueletterbible.org/help/greekverbs.cfm#voice
Click to expand...
The imperative is used when commanding, but the idea behind it is one of something that is necessary. If you are commanding someone to do X, then X is necessary, is it not?

An invitation to come to something would use the imperative to express it, such as in Luke 14:16Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. 17At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’

“Come” is an imperative. The banquet is ready and it is necessary to stop what you’re doing and come to the banquet to which you were invited lest you insult your host. There is a sense of “command”, but it is not strictly so, nor is it intended to be such. It does strongly imply a responsibility for the hearer to heed the invitation, as a social or civic obligation of respect, but while it is not always a command, it always marks a sense of necessity. That’s why I prefer and use the term necessity to command.


Doug
 
brightfame52 said:
Then you just contradicted yourself bud.
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No, I showed you an example of an imperative in conjunction with an invitation. It is not a hard command, as in ‘Get over here now, or else!’, but rather ‘Things are ready, and it’s time to come eat!’

Yes, there is an expectation of “obedience” but in a social construct, not a legal obligation. “Come eat!”, is not the same as “Stop killing!”, though both are imperative in mood.

Language has nuances; it’s not cut and dry in every case.

Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
No, I showed you an example of an imperative in conjunction with an invitation. It is not a hard command, as in ‘Get over here now, or else!’, but rather ‘Things are ready, and it’s time to come eat!’

Yes, there is an expectation of “obedience” but in a social construct, not a legal obligation. “Come eat!”, is not the same as “Stop killing!”, though both are imperative in mood.

Language has nuances; it’s not cut and dry in every case.

Doug
Click to expand...
You contradicted yourself. An imperative is a command. You were unwise to even challenge that.

The greek imperative defined:

Imperative Mood​

You have already learned two moods of Greek verbs: the INDICATIVE and INFINITIVE. This lesson presents one more mood: the IMPERATIVE.

The imperative mood conveys a COMMAND for someone to perform the action of the verb. The imperative mood exists in all voices, but occurs in only TWO TENSES:

  • present
  • aorist
pressbooks.pub

Imperative – Ancient Greek for Everyone

Imperative Mood You have already learned two moods of Greek verbs: the INDICATIVE and INFINITIVE. This lesson presents one more mood: the IMPERATIVE. The imperative mood…
pressbooks.pub pressbooks.pub
 
brightfame52 said:
You contradicted yourself. An imperative is a command. You were unwise to even challenge that.

The greek imperative defined:

Imperative Mood​

You have already learned two moods of Greek verbs: the INDICATIVE and INFINITIVE. This lesson presents one more mood: the IMPERATIVE.

The imperative mood conveys a COMMAND for someone to perform the action of the verb. The imperative mood exists in all voices, but occurs in only TWO TENSES:

  • present
  • aorist
pressbooks.pub

Imperative – Ancient Greek for Everyone

Imperative Mood You have already learned two moods of Greek verbs: the INDICATIVE and INFINITIVE. This lesson presents one more mood: the IMPERATIVE. The imperative mood…
pressbooks.pub pressbooks.pub
Click to expand...
And that means it is necessary for one to act in order to achieve the required objective.

Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
And that means it is necessary for one to act in order to achieve the required objective.

Doug
Click to expand...
You still in denial, a imperative is a command. Believing in Jesus is a command 1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

When Paul answered the Jailor, he said this Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Believe here is Imperative":

Definition of "Imperative"
Corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.
Click to expand...

Paul wasn't inviting him to believe, or giving him a choice to believe with his freewill
 
brightfame52 said:
You still in denial, a imperative is a command. Believing in Jesus is a command 1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

When Paul answered the Jailor, he said this Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Believe here is Imperative":



Paul wasn't inviting him to believe, or giving him a choice to believe with his freewill
Click to expand...
Not everyone obeys the command, though do they?

Doug
 
brightfame52 said:
Okay so now you saying its a command and not an invitation correct ?
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1John 3:23 is a command proper. Acts 16:31 is an answer to the question “what must I do to be saved?” “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.” It is imperative but is not a command proper.

Doug
 
brightfame52 said:
lol, Yes its a command, period !
Click to expand...
So again, what punishment do I get for disobeying? I am already lost, and the opportunity for salvation is graciously extended to me. The imperative says there is a way out that you must take to be saved! It is the only way; it is the necessary way to be saved. A command has to have an “or else” consequence for disobeying, but we are already lost. The gospel is an opportunity to change that state of being lost. If there is a change to be made, it is an opportunity to be saved, one that can be rejected.

We are just repeating ourselves, so this will, more than likely, mark the end of my input.


Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
So again, what punishment do I get for disobeying? I am already lost, and the opportunity for salvation is graciously extended to me. The imperative says there is a way out that you must take to be saved! It is the only way; it is the necessary way to be saved. A command has to have an “or else” consequence for disobeying, but we are already lost. The gospel is an opportunity to change that state of being lost. If there is a change to be made, it is an opportunity to be saved, one that can be rejected.

We are just repeating ourselves, so this will, more than likely, mark the end of my input.


Doug
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Well it is disobeying. Haven't you heard o some disobeying the Gospel. Rom 10 16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

2 Thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Pet 4:17

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
 
brightfame52 said:
Well it is disobeying. Haven't you heard o some disobeying the Gospel.
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It’s a rhetorical question…

The point is that we are already condemned before we hear the gospel, the imperative says ”believing” is the necessary thing to change our condemnation to acceptance.

Is believing necessary or not?

Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
It’s a rhetorical question…

The point is that we are already condemned before we hear the gospel, the imperative says ”believing” is the necessary thing to change our condemnation to acceptance.

Is believing necessary or not?

Doug
Click to expand...
The elect for whom Christ died are never condemned, the Law cant condemn them since Christ fulfilled all of its requirements in precept and punishment. Thats why all the elect will believe, because they are not condemned.

The non elect cant and wont believe because they are condemned by the Law, and frankly they dont have any right to believe in Jesus since He didn't satisfy the demands of the law for them.

Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned[by the law]: but he that believeth not is condemned already[by the law], because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
brightfame52 said:
The elect for whom Christ died are never condemned, the Law cant condemn them since Christ fulfilled all of its requirements in precept and punishment. Thats why all the elect will believe, because they are not condemned.

The non elect cant and wont believe because they are condemned by the Law, and frankly they dont have any right to believe in Jesus since He didn't satisfy the demands of the law for them.

Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned[by the law]: but he that believeth not is condemned already[by the law], because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son.
Click to expand...

Circular reasoning that cannot be substantiated by the text.



“By the law” is not the source of condemnation; God is! The reason for the law, it will be remembered, is to reveal our sinfulness, to reveal that we are already condemned. “By the law” is not in the text!


And believing or not believing is the sole reason for being condemned or not condemned. Thus, before we believe we are condemned and when we are believing we are not condemned. (If we ever stop believing, we are again condemned; but that is another topic for discussion in another thread at another time.)

Nothing is said about the capacity of belief, only that we have believed or haven’t believed. Nothing even suggests that believing is not possible for some, only that some have not believed, and thus are remaining in the state of condemnation in which they have always existed. All who have sinned are “condemned already”, and all the have not yet believed remain as such!


Doug
 
Last edited:
TibiasDad said:
Circular reasoning that cannot be substantiated by the text.



“By the law” is not the source of condemnation; God is! The reason for the law, it will be remembered, is to reveal our sinfulness, to reveal that we are already condemned. “By the law” is not in the text!


And believing or not believing is the sole reason for being condemned or not condemned. Thus, before we believe we are condemned and when we are believing we are not condemned. (If we ever stop believing, we are again condemned; but that is another topic for discussion in another thread at another time.)

Nothing is said about the capacity of belief, only that we have believed or haven’t believed. Nothing even suggests that believing is not possible for some, only that some have not believed, and thus are remaining in the state of condemnation in which they have always existed. All who have sinned are “condemned already”, and all the have not yet believed remain as such!


Doug
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No nobody Christ died for is ever condemned.
 

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