PSA as central to the Gospel

[praise_yeshua]

Some make void the word of God by their traditions. The traditions of fallen men who teach error.

God did not punish His Son, Evil and wicked men punished Him, tortured Him, persecuted Him and finally killed Him.

hope this helps !!!

Yep. He laid down His life to man. Stephen called them "murderers".

Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

 

[civic]

Yep. He laid down His life to man. Stephen called them "murderers".

Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Amen.

Great verse !!!

 

[Red Baker]

@civic @praise_yeshua @Jay @ David @Joe
I have said this:

While it is true wicked hands put Christ to death, yet God used those wicked men to perfectly carry out what had to be done in order for his elect to be saved from their sins, the Just had to die for the unjust, in order for them to have the righteousness of God, which gives a person a right to eternal life, there was no other way, for if it were, then God would have taken the most righteous way to redeem his people from their sins. Let us consider a few scriptures:

Galatians 3:13​

I'm stepping out for a while but want to come back and address these scriptures:

John 11:49-53~"And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death."

If any of you disagree then start with my posit @ #41-43 and prove me wrong, and others that follow #43, etc.

Again we fully understand and agree that wicked men put Christ to death, and as I said, God's infinite foreknowledge knew every details, of their hatred for the truth and every thoughts thereof before they ever had those thoughts. and used them to perfectly carry out His eternal purposes in order for Christ to secures eternal life for God's elect. You folks only have half of the truth, the main part of christ's mission you reject, thereby reject the truth of Christ Gospel.

So I ask each one of you the following questions: 1) "Was it "expedient" for God's people that Christ died as an offering to God for our sins?" 2) "Who made Christ a curse for us according to Galatians 3:13?" 3) Who made Christ sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God according to 2nd Corinthians 5:21? 4) Was our sins imputed to Christ and his righteousness imputed to us? If yes, on what grounds? 5) Was Christ a private person or acting as federal head of his people? Please explain in a few words. 6) Lastly, but by no means the least, did it please Jehovah God to bruise his Son? per Isaiah 53

Isaiah 53:10​

“Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.”

I could ask so many more question but these are enough for now. Isaiah the prophet is not on your side, not even close, this should concern all of you. God gave his only begotten Son, knowing that there was no other ways to bring salvation to fallen humanity except through God making his Son an offering for our sins. Jesus Christ truly was the LAMB OF GOD to be sacrificed for the sins of his people.

John 1:29​

“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”

 

[civic]

@civic @praise_yeshua @Jay @ David @Joe
I have said this:

I'm stepping out for a while but want to come back and address these scriptures:

If any of you disagree then start with my posit @ #41-43 and prove me wrong, and others that follow #43, etc.

Again we fully understand and agree that wicked men put Christ to death, and as I said, God's infinite foreknowledge knew every details, of their hatred for the truth and every thoughts thereof before they ever had those thoughts. and used them to perfectly carry out His eternal purposes in order for Christ to secures eternal life for God's elect. You folks only have half of the truth, the main part of christ's mission you reject, thereby reject the truth of Christ Gospel.

So I ask each one of you the following questions: 1) "Was it "expedient" for God's people that Christ died as an offering to God for our sins?" 2) "Who made Christ a curse for us according to Galatians 3:13?" 3) Who made Christ sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God according to 2nd Corinthians 5:21? 4) Was our sins imputed to Christ and his righteousness imputed to us? If yes, on what grounds? 5) Was Christ a private person or acting as federal head of his people? Please explain in a few words. 6) Lastly, but by no means the least, did it please Jehovah God to bruise his Son? per Isaiah 53

Isaiah 53:10​

“Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.”

I could ask so many more question but these are enough for now. Isaiah the prophet is not on your side, not even close, this should concern all of you. God gave his only begotten Son, knowing that there was no other ways to bring salvation to fallen humanity except through God making his Son an offering for our sins. Jesus Christ truly was the LAMB OF GOD to be sacrificed for the sins of his people.

John 1:29​

“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”

Jesus and the Apostles are not on your side not even close. All you have is one misunderstood passage in Isaiah that is not once quoted in the NT.

So your doctrine is built upon sinking sand and is absent in the NT.

PSA is unbiblical

The wrath of God (Isaiah 53)

Within the study of the doctrine on PSA, the central O.T. passage it comes from is found in Isaiah 53. Let us look at how the N.T. quotes Isaiah 53 and see how the N.T. writers viewed the passages and used them in the N.T. and what language from Isaiah 53 they applied to Jesus in the N.T. regarding suffering.

In doing so, a few things stand out. There is no penal aspect/ language Isaiah used that is carried over in the N.T. but that of substitution. Isaiah 53:4- WE (not God) considered Him punished by God.

The following NT passages quote Isaiah 53: Matthew 8:14-17; Mark 15:27-32; John 12:37-41; Luke 22:35-38; Acts 8:26-35; Romans 10:11-21; and 1 Peter 2:19-25. Not one of them uses any penal language where PSA gets its doctrine from in Isaiah 53 in the New Testament.

1-Matthew 8:17 Carried our diseases (Isaiah 53:4)

2-Mark 15:28 Numbered with transgressors (Isaiah 53:12)

3-Luke 22:37 Numbered with transgressors (Isaiah 53:12)

4-John 12:38 Who has believed our report? (Isaiah 53:1)

5-Acts 8:32 A lamb to the slaughter (Isaiah 53:7)

6-Romans 10:16 Who has believed our report? (Isaiah 53:1)

7-1Peter 2:22 He committed no sin (Isaiah 53:9)

8-1Peter 2:24 By his stripes you were healed (Isaiah 53:5)

 

[DavidTree]

What are you guilty of? "Penal" requires guilt. So make this real. What are you guilty of?

Just FYI. The English word "Penal" comes from French......

Oh what a terrible origin that basically has "zero" origins in any biblical language.

We, my brother!
We have committed sin, are guilty and therefore we suffer death.

Our only hope is in the shed Blood of Christ who suffered on our behalf(punishment) unto death on the Cross.

Christ redeems our soul unto Eternal Life when we are received by the FATHER thru His Son.
Our physical body remains under the punishment of death but will be transformed at His Second Coming.
Direct language from the LORD in both the OT and also in the NT

@Jay made a very serious error in his post #57

Here is the correction that @Jay needs, to return to TRUTH = Hebrews 9:22

According to the law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood,
and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

SHALOM in TRUTH = "Thy Word is TRUTH"

 

[DavidTree]

@civic @praise_yeshua @Jay @ David @Joe
I have said this:

I'm stepping out for a while but want to come back and address these scriptures:

If any of you disagree then start with my posit @ #41-43 and prove me wrong, and others that follow #43, etc.

Again we fully understand and agree that wicked men put Christ to death, and as I said, God's infinite foreknowledge knew every details, of their hatred for the truth and every thoughts thereof before they ever had those thoughts. and used them to perfectly carry out His eternal purposes in order for Christ to secures eternal life for God's elect. You folks only have half of the truth, the main part of christ's mission you reject, thereby reject the truth of Christ Gospel.

So I ask each one of you the following questions: 1) "Was it "expedient" for God's people that Christ died as an offering to God for our sins?" 2) "Who made Christ a curse for us according to Galatians 3:13?" 3) Who made Christ sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God according to 2nd Corinthians 5:21? 4) Was our sins imputed to Christ and his righteousness imputed to us? If yes, on what grounds? 5) Was Christ a private person or acting as federal head of his people? Please explain in a few words. 6) Lastly, but by no means the least, did it please Jehovah God to bruise his Son? per Isaiah 53

Isaiah 53:10​

“Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.”

I could ask so many more question but these are enough for now. Isaiah the prophet is not on your side, not even close, this should concern all of you. God gave his only begotten Son, knowing that there was no other ways to bring salvation to fallen humanity except through God making his Son an offering for our sins. Jesus Christ truly was the LAMB OF GOD to be sacrificed for the sins of his people.

John 1:29​

“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”

i am assuming @David is myself ???

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus and the Apostles are not on your side not even close. All you have is one misunderstood passage in Isaiah that is not once quoted in the NT.

So your doctrine is built upon sinking sand and is absent in the NT.

PSA is unbiblical

The wrath of God (Isaiah 53)

Within the study of the doctrine on PSA, the central O.T. passage it comes from is found in Isaiah 53. Let us look at how the N.T. quotes Isaiah 53 and see how the N.T. writers viewed the passages and used them in the N.T. and what language from Isaiah 53 they applied to Jesus in the N.T. regarding suffering.

In doing so, a few things stand out. There is no penal aspect/ language Isaiah used that is carried over in the N.T. but that of substitution. Isaiah 53:4- WE (not God) considered Him punished by God.

The following NT passages quote Isaiah 53: Matthew 8:14-17; Mark 15:27-32; John 12:37-41; Luke 22:35-38; Acts 8:26-35; Romans 10:11-21; and 1 Peter 2:19-25. Not one of them uses any penal language where PSA gets its doctrine from in Isaiah 53 in the New Testament.

1-Matthew 8:17 Carried our diseases (Isaiah 53:4)

2-Mark 15:28 Numbered with transgressors (Isaiah 53:12)

3-Luke 22:37 Numbered with transgressors (Isaiah 53:12)

4-John 12:38 Who has believed our report? (Isaiah 53:1)

5-Acts 8:32 A lamb to the slaughter (Isaiah 53:7)

6-Romans 10:16 Who has believed our report? (Isaiah 53:1)

7-1Peter 2:22 He committed no sin (Isaiah 53:9)

8-1Peter 2:24 By his stripes you were healed (Isaiah 53:5)

Absolutely. Isaiah 53 in the most reliable witness is found in Codex Alexandrinus. How would a practical KJVOist know this? @RedBaker

 

[praise_yeshua]

We, my brother!
We have committed sin, are guilty and therefore we suffer death.

That isn't good enough. What sin did you commit worthy of death? Not all sin is worthy of death.

Our only hope is in the shed Blood of Christ who suffered on our behalf(punishment) unto death on the Cross.

Christ redeems our soul unto Eternal Life when we are received by the FATHER thru His Son.
Our physical body remains under the punishment of death but will be transformed at His Second Coming.
Direct language from the LORD in both the OT and also in the NT

@Jay made a very serious error in his post #57

Here is the correction that @Jay needs, to return to TRUTH = Hebrews 9:22

According to the law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood,
and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

SHALOM in TRUTH = "Thy Word is TRUTH"

I do agree that @Jay is making a mistake. However, you are too.

Christ gave His life. The shedding of blood removes life from the flesh. The life of the flesh is in "blood".

I suppose you're one of this people that believe in the "Eternal Blood" of Jesus Christ?

Just so you realize it. The OT speaks of "pouring blood out upon the ground as water"....

Deu 15:23 Only thou shalt not eat the blood thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.