PSA as central to the Gospel

[DavidTree]

Nonsense. You don't know the law of Moses. Things were purged by water and fire.

If you're going to have this conversation, then be prepared.



So you believe in the "magic blood" of Jesus Christ that somehow itself must be applied to purge sin....

Do you know how many times I've asked that question and what happened with you is exactly always seems to happen. It happens because you've never had this conversation in an apologetic sense of defending your words from obvious critcism.

Jesus Christ was the son of Mary. His blood wasn't eternal. He doesn't have it with Him now and you're not being "sprinkled" with His blood to be saved.

His work speaks of better things....than this.

Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

He is alive and ever lives to make intercession for us.

Geesh....

the "magic blood" of Jesus Christ that somehow itself must be applied to purge sin....

You have dropped below the required level of Truth that God commanded us by mocking God's Atonement which only came about by the Suffering unto Death of His only begotten Son, The LORD Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 13:12
For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned outside the camp.
Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His Own Blood, suffered outside the gate.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You have dropped below the required level of Truth that God commanded us by mocking God's Atonement which only came about by the Suffering unto Death of His only begotten Son, The LORD Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 13:12
For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned outside the camp.
Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His Own Blood, suffered outside the gate.

I didn't mock the Atonement. You're the one making mistakes in this. Tell me where I made a mistake in context of the Scriptures? I'll listen. I believe you realize now that I know much more about this than you do.

So. Bring it on brother. Do your duty and instruct me.

 

[DavidTree]

So where is this blood you claim removes your sin? Peter references an event. You're the one making the argument. Stop this dealing with this as a child and start providing details.

the Apostle Peter confirms Salvation thru the Blood of Christ = 1 Peter 1:19

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
but with the precious Blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

 

[praise_yeshua]

the Apostle Peter confirms Salvation thru the Blood of Christ = 1 Peter 1:19

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
but with the precious Blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

Sure.

The life of the flesh is in the blood... right?

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Jesus gave His life for humanity in shed all His blood from the time He was first beaten all the way until the soldier pierced His side and water and blood flowed out till it was all gone.

In my belief, That "life" was shed at the cross on the very spot that Adam was taken from the ground. It is symbolic and literally the pouring out of life for what man was made.

This was done once.......

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

It doesn't keep happening.

 

[DavidTree]

Sure.

The life of the flesh is in the blood... right?

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Jesus gave His life for humanity in shed all His blood from the time He was first beaten all the way until the soldier pierced His side and water and blood flowed out till it was all gone.

In my belief, That "life" was shed at the cross on the very spot that Adam was taken from the ground. It is symbolic and literally the pouring out of life for what man was made.

This was done once.......

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

It doesn't keep happening.

Christ needed to only suffer once, for all who who be joined in Him.

This does not negate, in any way, that it is only His Death & shed Blood on the Cross that is the Atonement for the sins of the world.
In fact, it MAGNIFIES His Offering of Himself

Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

 

[praise_yeshua]

Christ needed to only suffer once, for all who who be joined in Him.

This does not negate, in any way, that it is only His Death & shed Blood on the Cross that is the Atonement for the sins of the world.
In fact, it MAGNIFIES His Offering of Himself

Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

The problem is with how you theologically apply what you just said. I'm not negating the blood of Jesus Christ in the Atonement.

I am properly apply the facts of the offering theologically to the necessity of forgiveness. It is the life of Jesus Christ in the flesh that was given for humanity in the shedding of His blood.

I've meet people that believed that there is actually a "mercy seat" in heaven where the Eternal living blood of Jesus Christ that was "poured out on the ground as water" currently resides and will always reside for "appeasement" of God's wrath upon humanity.

I just can't fathom how someone will think such things once exposed to the Truth. It is nothing but self serving nonsense.

If Jesus despised the "shame of the cross".... how can anyone have such views as this as an "Eternal Reminder" of His endless suffering for us. It is just "wishful" beliefs that have no truth in reality.

I don't "discount the blood". I just rightfully recognize that the blood was part of the process. He is alive today. In "Person" for us. He is alive without any blood.

 

[DavidTree]

The problem is with how you theologically apply what you just said. I'm not negating the blood of Jesus Christ in the Atonement.

I am properly apply the facts of the offering theologically to the necessity of forgiveness. It is the life of Jesus Christ in the flesh that was given for humanity in the shedding of His blood.

I've meet people that believed that there is actually a "mercy seat" in heaven where the Eternal living blood of Jesus Christ that was "poured out on the ground as water" currently resides and will always reside for "appeasement" of God's wrath upon humanity.

I just can't fathom how someone will think such things once exposed to the Truth. It is nothing but self serving nonsense.

If Jesus despised the "shame of the cross".... how can anyone have such views as this as an "Eternal Reminder" of His endless suffering for us. It is just "wishful" beliefs that have no truth in reality.

I don't "discount the blood". I just rightfully recognize that the blood was part of the process. He is alive today. In "Person" for us. He is alive without any blood.

If we believe and trust in the Holy Scriptures, then the understanding will follow.
Exhibit A: "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." - Hebrews 11:3

Neither you nor i understand exactly how God created everything but when we trust His Word, HE grants to us the necessary understanding that allows for us to trust and subsequently REST in His Word.

Exhibit B: "Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” - Hebrews 8:5

Therefore, that which the LORD instructed Moses was a reflection(on earth) of the Actual Sanctuary that is in Heaven.

Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are already priests who offer gifts according to the law.
The place where they serve is a copy and shadow of what is in Heaven - Hebrews 8:4

 

[praise_yeshua]

If we believe and trust in the Holy Scriptures, then the understanding will follow.
Exhibit A: "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." - Hebrews 11:3

Neither you nor i understand exactly how God created everything but when we trust His Word, HE grants to us the necessary understanding that allows for us to trust and subsequently REST in His Word.

Exhibit B: "Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” - Hebrews 8:5

Therefore, that which the LORD instructed Moses was a reflection(on earth) of the Actual Sanctuary that is in Heaven.

Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are already priests who offer gifts according to the law.
The place where they serve is a copy and shadow of what is in Heaven - Hebrews 8:4

I realize that many people believe this but the range of similarities could be very significant. The same people that believe what you just wrote insist that Christ offered His blood up the altar in heaven you believe Moses pattern his after.

Do you believe such identical similarities? Please answer.

I will remind you that Paul spoke of how he was caught up into heaven and saw things he couldn't speak about. If such glory exists among us in this natural life. Thinking of how much more glorious heaven actual is. I believe you're seeing things that aren't there in this.

 

[DavidTree]

I realize that many people believe this but the range of similarities could be very significant. The same people that believe what you just wrote insist that Christ offered His blood up the altar in heaven you believe Moses pattern his after.

Do you believe such identical similarities? Please answer.

I will remind you that Paul spoke of how he was caught up into heaven and saw things he couldn't speak about. If such glory exists among us in this natural life. Thinking of how much more glorious heaven actual is. I believe you're seeing things that aren't there in this.

The same people that believe what you just wrote insist that Christ offered His blood up the altar in heaven you believe Moses pattern his after.

It is very unfortunate and costly to think that that which is written in the Holy Scriptures to be just someone's errant opinion.

i STAND with the Holy Spirit who authored the book of Hebrews
AND
with the SAME Blood Washed Holy Spirit filled Saints who also believe those exact words in Hebrews

CHRIST placed His Blood on the Mercy Seat, in Heaven, before the FATHER and the Holy Angels to fulfill all Righteousness and to open the Gates of Heaven for all who are called and sanctified in CHRIST.

 

[DavidTree]

I will remind you that Paul spoke of how he was caught up into heaven and saw things he couldn't speak about. If such glory exists among us in this natural life. Thinking of how much more glorious heaven actual is. I believe you're seeing things that aren't there in this.

I will remind you that Paul spoke of how he was caught up into heaven and saw things he couldn't speak about.

Since this is TRUE , should you not believe that which was written in TRUTH by the Holy Spirit..........!!!

The Holy Spirit wants to remind you of these words spoken by Christ:

“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.

If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

 

[civic]

It is very unfortunate and costly to think that that which is written in the Holy Scriptures to be just someone's errant opinion.

i STAND with the Holy Spirit who authored the book of Hebrews
AND
with the SAME Blood Washed Holy Spirit filled Saints who also believe those exact words in Hebrews

CHRIST placed His Blood on the Mercy Seat, in Heaven, before the FATHER and the Holy Angels to fulfill all Righteousness and to open the Gates of Heaven for all who are called and sanctified in CHRIST.

Wow you think there is Jesus literal blood in heaven ?

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is very unfortunate and costly to think that that which is written in the Holy Scriptures to be just someone's errant opinion.

i STAND with the Holy Spirit who authored the book of Hebrews
AND
with the SAME Blood Washed Holy Spirit filled Saints who also believe those exact words in Hebrews

CHRIST placed His Blood on the Mercy Seat, in Heaven, before the FATHER and the Holy Angels to fulfill all Righteousness and to open the Gates of Heaven for all who are called and sanctified in CHRIST.

I didn't say anything contrary to what is written in the book of Hebrews. Tell me what I said that is contrary?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Wow you think there is Jesus literal blood in heaven ?

Yeah. It is sad.

 

[DavidTree]

Wow you think there is Jesus literal blood in heaven ?

Wow - you do not believe that JESUS emphasized "It is written"

When JESUS raised from the dead, what did HE say to Thomas?

Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”

So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!”
Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side.
Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

 

[DavidTree]

Wow you think there is Jesus literal blood in heaven ?

But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Wow - you do not believe that JESUS emphasized "It is written"

When JESUS raised from the dead, what did HE say to Thomas?

Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”

So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!”
Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side.
Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

So.... did Thomas get his hands bloody? Christ has life without His blood.

 

[praise_yeshua]

But Christ came as High Priest of the good things [c]to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Ah, there it is... finally. Why didn't you mention this verse before? Did you just find it?

 

[DavidTree]

I didn't say anything contrary to what is written in the book of Hebrews. Tell me what I said that is contrary?

You said that this is not literal, when the Scripture Says it is.


But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

 

[DavidTree]

Ah, there it is... finally. Why didn't you mention this verse before? Did you just find it?

Spoken to you in Post 101

 

[praise_yeshua]

You said that this is not literal, when the Scripture Says it is.


But Christ came as High Priest of the good things [c]to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

I didn't say anything about it not being literal. I actually told you that Christ's blood was poured out on the ground as water. Do you remember this?