The Rogue Tomato
Active Member
If I give you a gift, is that gift still mine? You're not making any sense.
Predestination and Determinism
- Thread starter civic
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If I give you a gift, is that gift still mine? You're not making any sense.
Sorry you reject the clear statement of scripture to posit your theology
Romans 4:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
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Romans 4:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
which is why you can neither quote scripture or rebut contrary to your view scripture
Then you must agree it is something you must do
As Jesus was telling his audience
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Piper did somewhat pretend that he made a mistake. I have a hard time tolerating Piper. Anyone that still demands that believers are bound by any principle whatsoever of a "tithe" is doing little more than building their own kingdom.
Was tithing the matter over which they disagreed?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
That isn't exactly accurate. I said there is no meaningful difference relative to God's purpose and choice. (Which is what we were discussing. God's purpose, character and providence. I never said there ISN'T a meaningful difference relative to man. There certainly is
Man must of his own efforts and volition believe.
You're failing to see this because you're limiting the choices. You are asking everyone to operate and respond with your limited perspective. Which is why I said you're making a circular argument. You have assumed your premise and the confines of what can possible construct your premise. You're not properly establishing your premise from all perspectives.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
No. They disagreed over Open Theism and Piper targeted Boyd professional over their disagreement.
I was attempting to make the point that Piper's commentary on tithing is disqualifying at any level to me.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You know you don't practice this in your life.
There is no gift at all without the Providence of God. We ARE the property of God. He owns us and ALL the Gifts He has benevolently provided.
1Co 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
civic
Active Member
Ditto
praise_yeshua
Active Member
We Took a Good Stand and Made a Bad Mistake
Reflections on the Baptist General Conference Annual Meeting St Paul One of the most significant issues before us as a Conference at the recent annual meeting was whether we would embrace open theism as part of our corporate identity. Open…
www.desiringgod.org
Thank youWe Took a Good Stand and Made a Bad Mistake
Reflections on the Baptist General Conference Annual Meeting St Paul One of the most significant issues before us as a Conference at the recent annual meeting was whether we would embrace open theism as part of our corporate identity. Open…
Rockson
Active Member
So I'm curious as to whether participants here believe that they did.We Took a Good Stand and Made a Bad Mistake
Reflections on the Baptist General Conference Annual Meeting St Paul One of the most significant issues before us as a Conference at the recent annual meeting was whether we would embrace open theism as part of our corporate identity. Open…
Seems all these Calvinists disagree with your understanding of john 6:29
John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)
This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.
Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.
Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.
Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Testament commentary D.A. Carson
John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —
The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary
Sure it is. LOL Why would you give it to someone who is already a believer?
Your position is contradictory. Faith in your system involves merit.
civic
Active Member
Take it up with the Apostle’s below as they agree with me lol.Sure it is. LOL Why would you give it to someone who is already a believer?
This is the exhausted list used by Calvinist to try and prove faith is a gift. Guess what it’s all those who are already saved , believers.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ,
not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of ourfaith;
who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,
despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ,
to them that have obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
1Co 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another?
and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?
now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory,
as if thou hadst not received it?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Most every Calvinist I've meet have expressed surprise to learn that this actually happened at all. I remember this distinctly because I was in the "middle" of various discussions about the impact with DTS (Dallas Theological Seminar) members at the time. It was a very contentious issue. My assessment is that Boyd actually handled Piper targeting him with Grace while Piper "was Piper". < my words.
However, I've never meet a Calvinist that wouldn't defend Piper's actions as being warranted given the "plague" < my words.... of Open Theism at the time.
No, they don't agree with you. No one does. God gifts faith to those who already believe. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. No offense. Your trying to hard
civic
Active Member
Sure they do since they are already believers who are given faith in those passages .
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