Pauls use of Predestination

[The Rogue Tomato]

Yep the god of Calvinism controls everything including evil, sin. It’s all ordained by his will. Just the opposite of the God of scripture.

1. Evil is not something you can create. It's something one does.
2. Ordained does not mean controlled like a robot. "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good" means God foreordained what Joseph's brothers did. God did not make them do it like controlled robots. Make as many excuses as you want, but the scripture still says, "God MEANT IT for good."

 

[TomL]

1. Evil is not something you can create. It's something one does.
2. Ordained does not mean controlled like a robot. "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good" means God foreordained what Joseph's brothers did. God did not make them do it like controlled robots. Make as many excuses as you want, but the scripture still says, "God MEANT IT for good."

And that is not stated of all evil acts

 

[Presby02]

God doesn't need sin to accomplish His purpose. Your system exalts sin as the purpose of God. It is blasphemous.

No one said He needs it. It does serve His purposes though as does everything else in his creation.

 

[Presby02]

So if I came up and slapped your face and gave you a kick in the behind and I said God must have made me do it what would you say? Would it be, "Oh yes I'm sure! God did create all things?"

Kicking or slapping me in not a thing. Those are actions produced by the thing.

 

[Presby02]

Extension ad absurdum and a straw man...

IF listening to GOD's proclamation to every creature ever created, Col 1:23, about HIS Divinity and about HIS gospel of salvation from the natural and legal consequences of choosing to be sinful in HIS sight land then choosing to repudiate that proclamation as the lies of a false god is the ex nihilo creation of evil...then so be it.

THe interpretation that Christ made all things so He must have made evil is a gnostic interpretation and, if reports are true, held most strongly by advanced Masons.

So where does it come from then?

 

[Presby02]

Yes

Romans 5:12 (UASV) — 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned,

And who created man? LOL

By the way it says nothing anyone creating anything. Horrible abuse of scriipture.

 

[Presby02]

It addressed it perfectly. Now I know how Jesus felt talking with the Pharisees in John 5-10

And my point is dodged and left unaddressed.

 

[Presby02]

Yep the god of Calvinism controls everything including evil, sin. It’s all ordained by his will. Just the opposite of the God of scripture.

So some things are beyond His control or He just simply chooses not to?

 

[TomL]

So some things are beyond His control or He just simply chooses not to?

He just simply chooses not to

 

[Presby02]

He just simply chooses not to

Chapter and verse

 

[Rockson]

Kicking or slapping me in not a thing. Those are actions produced by the thing.

;And you don't believe God ordained everything to occur?

 

[Presby02]

;And you don't believe God ordained everything to occur?

that makes no sense.

 

[Rockson]

that makes no sense.

I agree but that's what you believe.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No one said He needs it. It does serve His purposes though as does everything else in his creation.

You just did. Your system requires that God use sin for His purpose.

Define "need" absent God's purpose. Go for it.

 

[Presby02]

I agree but that's what you believe.

Ya, okay. Have a good day

 

[Presby02]

You just did. Your system requires that God use sin for His purpose.

Define "need" absent God's purpose. Go for it.

He used it for the crucifixion no?

And no one said He is required to do anything.

 

[praise_yeshua]

1. Evil is not something you can create. It's something one does.

Ask your friends about primary cause and how they treat such.

2. Ordained does not mean controlled like a robot. "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good" means God foreordained what Joseph's brothers did. God did not make them do it like controlled robots. Make as many excuses as you want, but the scripture still says, "God MEANT IT for good."

You keep repeating yourself while refusing to establish your premise.

 

[praise_yeshua]

He used it for the crucifixion no?

No. As I told you many times and you've ignored it. Jesus didn't serve sin at the crucifixion. He served humanity.

And no one said He is required to do anything.

Doesn't matter if you admit to it or not. Your beliefs establish the requirement that Christ serve Sin to accomplish what YOU CLAIM is "His purpose".

 

[Presby02]

No. As I told you many times and you've ignored it. Jesus didn't serve sin at the crucifixion. He served humanity.



Doesn't matter if you admit to it or not. Your beliefs establish the requirement that Christ serve Sin to accomplish what YOU CLAIM is "His purpose".

No? What God planned and determined to occur, brought about by His hand, Acts 4:27,28 involved no sin? Yikes.

There is nothing to admit to. Another failed gotcha.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No? What God planned and determined to occur, brought about by His hand, Acts 4:27,28 involved no sin? Yikes.

You need to read it again. Maybe all of it this time....

Act 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Act 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Act 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

There is nothing to admit to. Another failed gotcha.

I always deal with everything you say. Always. You ignore 90 percent of what I say.

I'll offer again. Lets have a public debate where we are required to deal with what each other says. Don't be a coward. Go for it.