Open Debate on the "Eternal Sonship vs Incarnate Sonship which is biblical?"

[Milo Flores]

God's only begotten son.

I will repeat from above.
Col 1: 15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

The first born of ALL creation. When do you believe creation started.
Even if you believe that he only became son after birth... This tells a different story.
First born is born and if born has a Father and unless you know something I do not, God
the father in heaven was Jesus' only Father.

Col 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Irrefutable proof that Jesus was before creation. Before any creation, as Col 1:15 reads
Now... let us move on tyo what it says elsewhere in the Holy Scriptures and why.

In eternity past
Matthew 11:27: “All these things have been given to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son of Man decides to reveal him.”


The bottom line is that the Greek present tense is timeless and supports the notion that the Father and Son knew each other intimately for eternity, in the past, present and future—forever. Jesus did not become the Son at his birth or baptism
check out ~ (Matthew: Zondervan Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament [Zondervan, 2010], p. 440).

Back to John ever so briefly:

John 1: 1-2 states that God and the Word existed before creation:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.

This verse further clarifies the identity of God and the Word ~ they ARE Father and Son, who came from the Father in heaven

John 1:14 states ~ And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

then

John 17:5 states ~ “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Right here, for no one to miss... Jesus is saying with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

And at this point it is a great place for me to stop right now because if you deny what Jesus is saying then
it is useless to go on. And I would love your comments on this specific chapter before I do.

Thank you for bringing up Colossians 1 and John 1/17. I agree with you that these texts clearly affirm Christ’s pre-existence before all creation. What I would add, however, is some careful distinctions that Scripture itself makes:

1. “Firstborn of all creation” (Col 1:15).
   
   • The Greek πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως does not mean “one more creature,” but rather that He is prior in rank and origin to all creation.
   • In other words, creation begins through Him, and He Himself proceeds uniquely from the Father. That is why He is called only-begotten (μονογενής), unlike any other.
2. “Through Him and for Him” (Col 1:16).
   
   • The text says creation is “δι’ αὐτοῦ” —through Him— and “εἰς αὐτόν” —for Him.
   • This shows both agency (all things were made by commission of the Father, through the Son) and inheritance (all things are destined for the Son).
3. John 1 and John 17.
   
   • Yes, the Word existed in the beginning and was with God. But notice John calls Him Logos (Word), not Son, until He became flesh (Jn 1:14).
   • So the Word is fully divine, but the title “Son” is tied to His unique relationship to the Father —He proceeds from Him, not independently of Him.
   • In Jn 17:5, Christ asks to be glorified “with the glory I had with You before the world was.” This confirms pre-existence and glory, but again in dependence: the Father gave Him that glory.
4. On the Greek present tense (Matt 11:27).
   
   • I agree that it shows an ongoing, timeless relationship. But timeless does not necessarily mean “without origin.” It means the relationship of Father and Son precedes creation and transcends time.

---

Summary of my position:

• I affirm Christ’s pre-existence before creation, His divine nature as the Word, and His glory with the Father.
• I also see that Scripture carefully distinguishes the Father as the Source (“from whom are all things,” 1 Cor 8:6) and the Son as the Mediator (“through whom are all things”).
• Therefore, I do not deny His eternal pre-existence, but I avoid going beyond what is written: Christ is eternal in the sense of being before space-time, uniquely begotten of the Father, and the One through whom all creation came into being.

 

[Milo Flores]

may 101G ask you a question? is not JESUS, the Christ, the Holy Spirit who is mediator/and advocate, yes or no.

101G.

No, Jesus the Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes them clearly:

• Christ as Mediator: “There is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim 2:5). His mediatorship is based on His incarnation, death, and resurrection.
• The Holy Spirit as Advocate: In John 14–16, Jesus speaks of “another Comforter/Advocate” (Greek παράκλητος, paraklētos). The Spirit continues Christ’s work, dwelling in us, guiding us into all truth, and interceding with groanings (Rom 8:26).

So Christ mediates salvation by His sacrifice and ongoing priesthood (Heb 7:25), while the Spirit advocates by applying Christ’s work to us. Both are distinct, yet in perfect unity under the Father’s will.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Christ, the Only-Begotten of the Father and Mediator of All Creation​

Scripture presents Christ as unique in His origin and as Mediator of all creation, always in subjection to the Father, and pointing to the final consummation.

---

1. Christ, the only One who proceeds directly from the Father​

• Christ is called only-begotten (μονογενής, monogenēs), the only one born from the Father (Jn 1:14; Lk 1:35).
• This distinguishes Him radically from all created things: He does not proceed as the creatures do, but directly from the Father.
• His sonship is unique: no one else shares that relationship.

---

2. Everything else was created through the Son,​

• John 1:3: “All things (πάντα, panta) were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.”
• Colossians 1:16: “For in Him all things were created… all things have been created through Him and for Him.”
• 1 Corinthians 8:6: “for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things (ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα), and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things (δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα).”
• Hebrews 1:2: “Through the Son He also made the universe.”

These statements cover everything without exception: matter, spiritual beings, invisible powers, and even space-time itself.
The Father is the Source and Author, and the Son carries out creation as Mediator, by commission of the Father.

---

3. Implication: Christ is prior to space-time​

• If “all things” were made through the Son, this includes:
  • Space (the heavens and the earth).
  • Time (Ἐν ἀρχῇ, en archē = “in the beginning”).
• Christ was originated by the Father before space-time, and everything else —including time itself— was created through Him, by commission of the Father.
• Therefore Christ may be called “eternal” in the biblical sense: not without origin like the Father, but prior to time, the mediating cause of all that exists.

---

4. “Only-begotten” and “Firstborn”​

• Only-begotten: underlines His unique origin from the Father → only Christ proceeds directly from God.
• Firstborn of all creation (Col 1:15): does not mean He is “one more creature,” but that He is first in rank and the mediating agent through whom all was made.
• He is also:
  • Firstborn from the dead (Col 1:18): the first to rise to eternal life.
  • Firstborn among many brothers (Rom 8:29): the head of the new humanity.

Both terms imply causality and derivation: the Father is prior as Source; the Son proceeds from Him; everything else proceeds from the Father through the Son, by the Father’s commission.

---

5. Kenosis: in Christ, not in the Father​

• Here we must be careful: Scripture never says the Father “emptied Himself.”
• First kenosis (metaphorical): it may be understood as the fact that the Son received His being from the Father before space-time, in total dependence on Him. It is not the Father who empties Himself, but in the Son the Father’s gift is expressed. (Although I personally “lean toward” the interpretation that, in a metaphorical sense, one might also speak of a kind of “self-emptying” of the Father in giving origin to the Son; yet I say this cautiously, without going beyond what is written).
• Second kenosis (historical): in the incarnation, the Son “emptied Himself” (ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν, heauton ekenōsen — Phil 2:6–7), taking the form of a servant and humbling Himself unto death on the cross.

---

6. Biblical warning​

• We must not go beyond what is written.
• Scripture reveals enough: the Father as the only Source, the Son as Mediator by the Father’s commission, the Spirit as the living action.
• The hidden things remain in mystery: “The secret things belong to YHWH our God, but the things revealed belong to us” (Deut 29:29).

---

7. All things were created​

• Colossians 1:16: “all things were created through Him and for Him.”
• This means creation is His inheritance: the Father entrusts all things to the Son (Ps 2:8).
• But this “for Him” does not end in Christ alone:
  • 1 Corinthians 15:24–28: the Son will hand over the Kingdom to the Father, so that God may be all in all.
  • Revelation 21:1: “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.”

Thus, what was created for Christ is fulfilled in Him, and after the millennium opens into a new cosmic order, where God Himself is the fullness of all.

---

Conclusion​

• Christ is the only one who proceeds directly from the Father.
• Everything else, including space and time, was created through Him, by the Father’s commission.
• As only-begotten, He expresses His unique origin; as firstborn, His supremacy over all creation and over the new humanity.
• He is eternal in the biblical sense: prior to time, but dependent on the Father as Source.
• All was created “for Him,” but after the millennium there will be a new arrangement: Christ will hand the Kingdom back to the Father, and the new creation will begin, where God will be all in all.

In this way, we affirm the full divinity of Christ in function, as universal Mediator and heir of all things, always subject to the Father as the only Source and Author.

Thank you for posting this so understandably.

 

[Studyman]

GINOLJC, to all,
First thanks for the reply. second, no, the Lord Jesus is not a robot. you just misunderstood what the FUNCTION of the ARM of God is. let 101G give you an example ok.

The arm of flesh vs The Arm of the LORD, “authority”​

When Sennacherib king of Assyria invaded Judah, with him was his ARMY, called an ARM of FLESH. 2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: 8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah".

so, the "POWER" or the "ARM" of Sennacherib king of Assyria was his ARMY. one of the failing prompts of the Unitarians, and the JW belief, and others is this. they say, "Jesus is not God", and one of there excuses they quote, "he could do nothing of himself", John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things”.

The Story you addressed here promotes "Faith" in God. That is, "Unconditional belief in God, shown by works". They couldn't "SEE" the outcome of this struggle, they were told to "Believe" in their Lord. In this way the Faith required by God for Salvation is tested and strengthened. There is no promotion of a "triune god" in this story, but there is a promoting of the importance of "Faith" that is needed to endure in this evil world.

The promoters of this world's religious system, who have adopted the ancient, pagan triune god, doesn't believe Jesus was a "man of Faith". They promote the philosophy that Jesus didn't rely on faith at all, as HE required of others. But that HE reserved for Himself God's Powers HE Himself withheld from all other humans, then Glorified Himself above all other humans when HE did what any man could have done, had they been given the same powers.

While at the same time telling others to live by Faith.

He didn't "give Himself" the Words HE spoke. He trusted in God to give Him Words. He didn't raise Himself from the dead, HE trusted God was Faithful to keep His Promises. He didn't rely on Himself to get through the tough times, HE prayed and meditated on God in times of need.

This is the very definition of Faith.

as the "the ARM of God", he , Jesus, was not authorized to act alone, or his own . this is clear as with the Assyrian army. no army act alone, or on their own power or authorization. not even our, the American Army, just get up and go to war with another country without authorization from the commander in chief, or the congress. just as 101G's own physical arm don't wave unless 101G head authorized it to wave. the head gives direction to the body, while on earth in a body, he is the body of Christ, the Church. this is explained in the understanding of the use of POWERS, the G1411 dunamis, and the G1849 exousia. just as the Army can do nothing of their own so do the Lord Jesus, he don't act alone, while on earth in flesh. hence one of the reason why he was in a G2758 keno, (to abase, neutralize, or make of none effect) state. but at his baptism he was authorized with G1849 exousia to act in the NAME of God, who doth the work. as to forgive sin, heal the sick, raise the dead, and so on. he is our example of how the G1849 exousia works. and that's why we, as 1 John 3:2a states, "now we're the Sons of God". because we was not before, by default, (in sin), we was the son of the evil one. our Lord Jesus having the NATURE, (see Phil 2:5) of God. yes, BEING IN THE FORM of God, having his nature, he took on our humanity. so that as the "KINSMAN" redeemer, (the power, or the ARM of God), in flesh and blood, (a Man... God own IMAGE), he then could give that BLOOD, which is the LIFE of the flesh, for our sins. see the ARM of God was authorized at his baptism, by the Holy Spirit descending on him. understand now? ... ARM of Flesh, the POWER of God.

101G.

Yes, as Jesus Himself said,

Matt. 17: 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

The event you are speaking to:

Matt. 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This was the first recorded Word concerning Jesus since HE was 12 years old. Some 20 years had passed. What did this man do in those 20 years that Pleased God?

Heb. 11: 6 But without faith it is "impossible to please him": for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder "of them" that diligently seek him.

This world's religious system that promotes a triune god, preaches that Jesus overcame "Because" HE part of the "Triad" which was God, and overcame by God Powers no other human was ever allowed to have, HE overcame in this world. But the Bible promotes a different Jesus, a "Man of Great Faith"

To me, you are describing the Faith Jesus had in His Father. Isn't that the whole point of the Scriptures? "The Just shall Live By Faith"!

 

[praise_yeshua]

no. 101G posted it before, and yes, it's the same .... FACTS....... (smile).

now to follow up, the NAME "JESUS", the Strong's # is (H3442), look this Strong’s number up. it is written Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin, it is a masculine noun that means, "He is salvation" or "He saves”. for only God SAVES. H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.
1. he will save.
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel.
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091

this name was given in the O.T. but hidden in PLAIN SIGHT... (Smile).

101G.

Okay. Dr. Strong did a great work but he basically confined his work to how some lesser manuscripts made bad choices in words.

My primary thoughts center around the tetragrammaton. I will followup later.

 

[101G]

No, Jesus the Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes them clearly:

• Christ as Mediator: “There is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim 2:5). His mediatorship is based on His incarnation, death, and resurrection.
• The Holy Spirit as Advocate: In John 14–16, Jesus speaks of “another Comforter/Advocate” (Greek παράκλητος, paraklētos). The Spirit continues Christ’s work, dwelling in us, guiding us into all truth, and interceding with groanings (Rom 8:26).

So Christ mediates salvation by His sacrifice and ongoing priesthood (Heb 7:25), while the Spirit advocates by applying Christ’s work to us. Both are distinct, yet in perfect unity under the Father’s will.

ok, thanks for the reply, but consider this. scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

advocate: G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822
See also: G3874

is not or intercessor the Holy Spirit? let's see, Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

101G.

 

[101G]

Okay. Dr. Strong did a great work but he basically confined his work to how some lesser manuscripts made bad choices in words.

My primary thoughts center around the tetragrammaton. I will followup later.

please do ... follow up.... this is what we suppose to do.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, Jesus the Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes them clearly:

• Christ as Mediator: “There is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim 2:5). His mediatorship is based on His incarnation, death, and resurrection.
• The Holy Spirit as Advocate: In John 14–16, Jesus speaks of “another Comforter/Advocate” (Greek παράκλητος, paraklētos). The Spirit continues Christ’s work, dwelling in us, guiding us into all truth, and interceding with groanings (Rom 8:26).

So Christ mediates salvation by His sacrifice and ongoing priesthood (Heb 7:25), while the Spirit advocates by applying Christ’s work to us. Both are distinct, yet in perfect unity under the Father’s will.

I agree but there is something to consider here. A point that needs to be made that often confuses oneness.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Person of the Spirit is also unique in Glorifying the Son among us.

 

[civic]

Thank you for bringing up Colossians 1 and John 1/17. I agree with you that these texts clearly affirm Christ’s pre-existence before all creation. What I would add, however, is some careful distinctions that Scripture itself makes:

1. “Firstborn of all creation” (Col 1:15).
   • The Greek πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως does not mean “one more creature,” but rather that He is prior in rank and origin to all creation.
   • In other words, creation begins through Him, and He Himself proceeds uniquely from the Father. That is why He is called only-begotten (μονογενής), unlike any other.
2. “Through Him and for Him” (Col 1:16).
   • The text says creation is “δι’ αὐτοῦ” —through Him— and “εἰς αὐτόν” —for Him.
   • This shows both agency (all things were made by commission of the Father, through the Son) and inheritance (all things are destined for the Son).
3. John 1 and John 17.
   • Yes, the Word existed in the beginning and was with God. But notice John calls Him Logos (Word), not Son, until He became flesh (Jn 1:14).
   • So the Word is fully divine, but the title “Son” is tied to His unique relationship to the Father —He proceeds from Him, not independently of Him.
   • In Jn 17:5, Christ asks to be glorified “with the glory I had with You before the world was.” This confirms pre-existence and glory, but again in dependence: the Father gave Him that glory.
4. On the Greek present tense (Matt 11:27).
   • I agree that it shows an ongoing, timeless relationship. But timeless does not necessarily mean “without origin.” It means the relationship of Father and Son precedes creation and transcends time.

---

Summary of my position:

• I affirm Christ’s pre-existence before creation, His divine nature as the Word, and His glory with the Father.
• I also see that Scripture carefully distinguishes the Father as the Source (“from whom are all things,” 1 Cor 8:6) and the Son as the Mediator (“through whom are all things”).
• Therefore, I do not deny His eternal pre-existence, but I avoid going beyond what is written: Christ is eternal in the sense of being before space-time, uniquely begotten of the Father, and the One through whom all creation came into being.

Would you agree that the Son is God as well ?

 

[FreeInChrist]

You said, "But how does any of that disagree with anything that I presented". did you say that the soul and spirit is the same?

well the soul can DIE, (see Ezekiel 18:4), but not the spirit, which can be cleansed. they are not the same. the spirits within us comes from God who do not die. your answer ......

101G.

One of those rare moments I agree with you.

We have been told...
Matt 10:28 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

People are oblivious to what Eccl 12:7 states
then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

People easily are confused when they read things they do not or cannot understand.

Thank you for pointing this out.

If one could just get those out there to understand we are spirits, we have a soul and we live in a body..
but alas... That is futile. SMH

 

[101G]

One of those rare moments I agree with you.

We have been told...
Matt 10:28 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

People are oblivious to what Eccl 12:7 states
then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

People easily are confused when they read things they do not or cannot understand.

Thank you for pointing this out.

If one could just get those out there to understand we are spirits, we have a soul and we live in a body..
but alas... That is futile. SMH

101G agree.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, Jesus the Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes them clearly:

• Christ as Mediator: “There is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim 2:5). His mediatorship is based on His incarnation, death, and resurrection.
• The Holy Spirit as Advocate: In John 14–16, Jesus speaks of “another Comforter/Advocate” (Greek παράκλητος, paraklētos). The Spirit continues Christ’s work, dwelling in us, guiding us into all truth, and interceding with groanings (Rom 8:26).

So Christ mediates salvation by His sacrifice and ongoing priesthood (Heb 7:25), while the Spirit advocates by applying Christ’s work to us. Both are distinct, yet in perfect unity under the Father’s will.

I agree but there is something to consider here. A point that needs to be made that often confuses oneness.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Person of the Spirit is also unique in Glorifying the Son among Persons of the Trinity. The Father is glorified in the Son.

 

[FreeInChrist]

The Story you addressed here promotes "Faith" in God. That is, "Unconditional belief in God, shown by works". They couldn't "SEE" the outcome of this struggle, they were told to "Believe" in their Lord. In this way the Faith required by God for Salvation is tested and strengthened. There is no promotion of a "triune god" in this story, but there is a promoting of the importance of "Faith" that is needed to endure in this evil world.

The promoters of this world's religious system, who have adopted the ancient, pagan triune god, doesn't believe Jesus was a "man of Faith". They promote the philosophy that Jesus didn't rely on faith at all, as HE required of others. But that HE reserved for Himself God's Powers HE Himself withheld from all other humans, then Glorified Himself above all other humans when HE did what any man could have done, had they been given the same powers.

While at the same time telling others to live by Faith.

He didn't "give Himself" the Words HE spoke. He trusted in God to give Him Words. He didn't raise Himself from the dead, HE trusted God was Faithful to keep His Promises. He didn't rely on Himself to get through the tough times, HE prayed and meditated on God in times of need.

This is the very definition of Faith.




Yes, as Jesus Himself said,

Matt. 17: 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

The event you are speaking to:

Matt. 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This was the first recorded Word concerning Jesus since HE was 12 years old. Some 20 years had passed. What did this man do in those 20 years that Pleased God?

Heb. 11: 6 But without faith it is "impossible to please him": for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder "of them" that diligently seek him.

This world's religious system that promotes a triune god, preaches that Jesus overcame "Because" HE part of the "Triad" which was God, and overcame by God Powers no other human was ever allowed to have, HE overcame in this world. But the Bible promotes a different Jesus, a "Man of Great Faith"

To me, you are describing the Faith Jesus had in His Father. Isn't that the whole point of the Scriptures? "The Just shall Live By Faith"!

Guess you cannot relate the word example and Jesus in the same sentence.

Don't worry I am not here to give you a lesson... but I dio have to tell you Studyman... sometimes you actually frighten me.

 

[101G]

Milo Flores said:
No, Jesus the Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes them clearly:

then, this,

I agree but there is something to consider here. A point that needs to be made that often confuses oneness.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Person of the Spirit is also unique in Glorifying the Son among us.

Well fellas the bible is clear, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, see 1 John 2:1.

as for oneness, you fellas put the true and only God third, when in fact he, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, is the ONE and ONLY true God.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Milo Flores said:
No, Jesus the Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes them clearly:

then, this,

Well fellas the bible is clear, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, see 1 John 2:1.

as for oneness, you fellas put the true and only God third, when in fact he, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, is the ONE and ONLY true God.

101G.

When Jesus was baptized, what was the dove?

 

[FreeInChrist]

Milo Flores said:
No, Jesus the Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes them clearly:

then, this,

Well fellas the bible is clear, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, see 1 John 2:1.

as for oneness, you fellas put the true and only God third, when in fact he, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, is the ONE and ONLY true God.

101G.

And since I have the Holy Spirit living in me, and Jesus is in heven sitting at the right hand of the Father....

If Jesus is the Holy Spirit he devides himself.....

WHERE IS THAT IN THE BIBLE?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Guess you cannot relate the word example and Jesus in the same sentence.

Don't worry I am not here to give you a lesson... but I dio have to tell you Studyman... sometimes you actually frighten me.

He is one of the most disjointed people I've meet here.

 

[FreeInChrist]

When Jesus was baptized, what was the dove?

And since Jesus sent them out to beptise in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.....WHY

Why did he not just say in the name of the Father and Son and be done with it?

 

[civic]

I agree but there is something to consider here. A point that needs to be made that often confuses oneness.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Person of the Spirit is also unique in Glorifying the Son among Persons of the Trinity. The Father is glorified in the Son.

Bingo

 

[civic]

And since Jesus sent them out to beptise in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.....WHY

Why did he not just say in the name of the Father and Son and be done with it?

Or just the Father, it’s inclusive of the 3 of Them for a good reason which Unitarians cannot grasp or comprehend