Open Debate on the "Eternal Sonship vs Incarnate Sonship which is biblical?"

[FreeInChrist]

To everyone and to no one in particular.

Why are people afraid of the number 3 sand what it might represent?

Ya talk about the Trinity and someone has to say nope... there were only two because 2 of the 3 were one.

You don't remember reading that... then read the last few entries above.

Ya talk about the tripartite man.... 3 parts, and the world come crashing down because the Soul of man and His Spirit are one thing.... meaning on 2 things not 3 Even though the bible separates the two
as the Spirit goes back to God and Cannot be killed but the soul can be destroyed with the body.

What are y'all afraid of?

 

[civic]

To everyone and to no one in particular.

Why are people afraid of the number 3 sand what it might represent?

Ya talk about the Trinity and someone has to say nope... there were only two because 2 of the 3 were one.

You don't remember reading that... then read the last few entries above.

Ya talk about the tripartite man.... 3 parts, and the world come crashing down because the Soul of man and His Spirit are one thing.... meaning on 2 things not 3 Even though the bible separates the two
as the Spirit goes back to God and Cannot be killed but the soul can be destroyed with the body.

What are y'all afraid of?

Fear of being wrong

 

[101G]

And since I have the Holy Spirit living in me, and Jesus is in heven sitting at the right hand of the Father....

that's your first ERROR, in his resurrected state, he is all power, meaning in us as in heaven, as he were before in us, see John 3:13.

If Jesus is the Holy Spirit he devides himself.....

diverse himself as the EQUAL SHARE of his own self in flesh... see Phil. 2:6 and 7

WHERE IS THAT IN THE BIBLE?

A. Equal Share. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Form: G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
See also: G3445, G3446, G4832

G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
another word for "portion" or that is synonyms to "portion" is "SHARE". so the NATURE of Jesus the Christ is the "EQUAL SHARE" of God in NATURE/Spirit. not separate, not Divided, but shared.

B. How is this an EQUAL SHARE of himself? answer, the term "WITH". Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." same person the FIRST "WITH" the LAST? let's see. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." WHAT? "I, I, I, I, ALSO? ..... what do ALSO means? answer, "in addition; too". so, in addition to being the FIRST, the LORD, (all caps), God is the LAST to. .... (smile), the same one person. just as in John 1:1 the Word was ... "WITH" .... God and is God.

my God, this is too easy. not to understand.

conclusion .... JESUS the Lord is the HOLY SPIRIT

101G.

 

[101G]

Fear of being wrong

No, just don't want to go to hell? that's all.....

101G.

 

[Studyman]

To everyone and to no one in particular.

Why are people afraid of the number 3 sand what it might represent?

Ya talk about the Trinity and someone has to say nope... there were only two because 2 of the 3 were one.

You don't remember reading that... then read the last few entries above.

Ya talk about the tripartite man.... 3 parts, and the world come crashing down because the Soul of man and His Spirit are one thing.... meaning on 2 things not 3 Even though the bible separates the two
as the Spirit goes back to God and Cannot be killed but the soul can be destroyed with the body.

What are y'all afraid of?

It is interesting isn't it. The number 3 is the number of days and nights Jesus and Jonah were dead, according to the Jesus "of the bible". And yet the same ancient religion which brought the ancient "triune god" philosophy into the Gospel of Christ, are the same folks who preach to this day that Jesus died just before sundown on Friday Night, and was raised early Sunday morning, "while it was yet dark", not even 1 day and 1.5 nights.

I guess where this world's religions are concerned, the number 3 is only significant when it can be used to justify a specific religious philosophy.

 

[civic]

It is interesting isn't it. The number 3 is the number of days and nights Jesus and Jonah were dead, according to the Jesus "of the bible". And yet the same ancient religion which brought the ancient "triune god" philosophy into the Gospel of Christ, are the same folks who preach to this day that Jesus died just before sundown on Friday Night, and was raised early Sunday morning, "while it was yet dark", not even 1 day and 1.5 nights.

I guess where this world's religions are concerned, the number 3 is only significant when it can be used to justify a specific religious philosophy.

I guess you can’t count to 3 nor understand the importance of Three.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, just don't want to go to hell? that's all.....

101G.

You shouldn't fear this. Understanding the intricacies of the Holy Trinity isn't a requirement for salvation. I believe it is a requirement for maturity and properly presenting the doctrine of God to all of humanity.

I'm much more tolerant of Jesus Only position because of the necessity of mankind to accept the value and quality of Jesus Christ. In many ways, "Jesus Only" positions can relate this if you avoid the nonsensical arguments that cloud the minds of mankind toward Jesus Christ. Like I've said to you before. Many of the arguments and substance you present agree with the errors of those who simply see the "Father" without the son and spirit. This "manifestation" position you have is very flawed. I would like for you to change but I'm not going to pretend you're not my brother. You should mature enough by now to realize God isn't looking to damn humanity. God has many stubborn children that refuse to listen. However, they're children nonetheless.

 

[FreeInChrist]

that's your first ERROR, in his resurrected state, he is all power, meaning in us as in heaven, as he were before in us, see John 3:13.

diverse himself as the EQUAL SHARE of his own self in flesh... see Phil. 2:6 and 7

A. Equal Share. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Form: G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
See also: G3445, G3446, G4832

G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
another word for "portion" or that is synonyms to "portion" is "SHARE". so the NATURE of Jesus the Christ is the "EQUAL SHARE" of God in NATURE/Spirit. not separate, not Divided, but shared.

B. How is this an EQUAL SHARE of himself? answer, the term "WITH". Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." same person the FIRST "WITH" the LAST? let's see. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." WHAT? "I, I, I, I, ALSO? ..... what do ALSO means? answer, "in addition; too". so, in addition to being the FIRST, the LORD, (all caps), God is the LAST to. .... (smile), the same one person. just as in John 1:1 the Word was ... "WITH" .... God and is God.

my God, this is too easy. not to understand.

conclusion .... JESUS the Lord is the HOLY SPIRIT

101G.

NO I AM NOT.

 

[FreeInChrist]

It is interesting isn't it. The number 3 is the number of days and nights Jesus and Jonah were dead, according to the Jesus "of the bible". And yet the same ancient religion which brought the ancient "triune god" philosophy into the Gospel of Christ, are the same folks who preach to this day that Jesus died just before sundown on Friday Night, and was raised early Sunday morning, "while it was yet dark", not even 1 day and 1.5 nights.

I guess where this world's religions are concerned, the number 3 is only significant when it can be used to justify a specific religious philosophy.

Because the IDIOTS don't understand Wednesday of crucifixion week works for the number of days
as well as the timing for everything to not interfere with the 2 Sabbaths.

And this way 3 is the correct number. 3 days and 3 nights. PERIOD

 

[FreeInChrist]

that's your first ERROR, in his resurrected state, he is all power, meaning in us as in heaven, as he were before in us, see John 3:13.

Jn 3:13
states that no one has ascended to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, referring to Jesus as the Son of Man.

diverse himself as the EQUAL SHARE of his own self in flesh... see Phil. 2:6 and 7

A. Equal Share. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
another word for "portion" or that is synonyms to "portion" is "SHARE". so the NATURE of Jesus the Christ is the "EQUAL SHARE" of God in NATURE/Spirit. not separate, not Divided, but shared

So then on the throne in heaven beside the Father and within us DOES NOT fit your definition.
So then when Jesus said in John 14:16 "16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
clearly states another and is not self. The only way they could be one is to be separate, or Divided,

my God, this is too easy. not to understand.

Then why dont you?

conclusion .... JESUS the Lord is the HOLY SPIRIT

Is wrong and provable

101G.

 

[Jim]

You said, "But how does any of that disagree with anything that I presented". did you say that the soul and spirit is the same?

well the soul can DIE, (see Ezekiel 18:4), but not the spirit, which can be cleansed. they are not the same. the spirits within us comes from God who do not die. your answer ......

101G.

No they are not precisely the same, but as I said they can be used interchangeably often indicating the person as opposed to either specifically the soul or the spirit.

 

[Studyman]

I guess you can’t count to 3 nor understand the importance of Three.

I know Friday Night just before Sundown and Sunday morning before sunrise doesn't make 3 days and 3 nights. Like I said, with the promoters of this world's religions, which you clearly are, the number 3 is only significant when you can use it to justifya specific religious philosophy.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one

I love 1 John 5.

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born "of God": and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is "the love of God", that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev. 3: 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but "I will confess his name" before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev. 3: 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even "as I also overcame", and am set down with my Father "in his throne".

4 For whatsoever "is born of God" overcometh the world: and this is the victory "that overcometh the world", even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth "that Jesus is the Son of God"?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is "the Spirit" that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that "bear record" in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Father of the Lord's Christ, the Word which became flesh and Blood, and God's Spirit all of which are from Heaven above, bear witness to the exact same thing regarding the "Light of this world". They all agree that Jesus is the Son of God. And I agree with them.

You use this verse to justify and promote the ancient "triune god" popular in the religions of this world since Noah's time. While all of these Spirits bear witness to the Son of God, who overcame in this world by Faith, defined as unconditional belief in God shown by works, you have to reject a lot of Christ's Sayings to stretch John's teaching here that his God is a triune god. But clearly his Lord and Savior, the Son of God, was Sent by God to teach him in the way that he shall go. If you spent as much time striving to keep God's Commandments as you spend trying to promote ancient Catholic philosophy, you might understand these things.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Matt. 28: 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power "is given unto me" (By Whom?) in heaven and in earth.
And why was it given to Him? You and this world's religious system teach that He had this power "BECAUSE" God was God.

But when I read what is actually written, that is not the case at all.

"Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God (His God and my God) also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

So there is the reason why His God gave Him all power. It's right there in your Bible, but you would have to choose between what is actually written, and the religious system of this world you are so invested in. For "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, the cost of turning to God and away from religious tradition, is just to great. But not impossible with Faith.

Let's continue with Jesus' Words in Matt. 28.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name "of the Father", (Jesus Father and my Father, the One True God that Jesus said was greater than HE) "and" "of the Son", (Whom His Father, who Jesus said was the One True God, SENT to be my Lord and Savior) "and" of the Holy Ghost: (Which God gives to those who obey Him)

20 Teaching them (What does Jesus say to Teach) to observe all things "whatsoever I have commanded you": and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

You whole "triune god" worship is really just a symptom of a much greater deception. But like it is written, "And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Studyman]

Because the IDIOTS don't understand Wednesday of crucifixion week works for the number of days
as well as the timing for everything to not interfere with the 2 Sabbaths.

And this way 3 is the correct number. 3 days and 3 nights. PERIOD

This is true, Jesus was placed in the Grave just before sundown on Wednesday, which was Passover and the preparation day for the First day of Unleavened bread, (Thursday that week, A Sabbath) and was raised from the dead just before Sundown on Saturday. 3 days and 3 nights. When Mary left home after the (weekly) Sabbath, while it was still dark, He was already risen. It is very cool that you understand this. Many, who come in Christ's Name, do not.

I don't think it was because they are Idiots. My mom believed this to her dying day, which was last Monday. She wasn't an idiot, she was just devoted to her adopted Methodist religion, and was deceived. I'm sure there were many wonderful Moms in Jesus Time just as devoted to the mainstream religions of their time as my Mom was, and were shouting "Crucify Him" right along with the rest. Truly I would have too, had I not turned away from this world's religious system and studied for my self.

Good for you FreeInChrist.

 

[Aeliana]

He is one of the most disjointed people I've meet here.

The “The Skeleton Dance” can fix that right up.

 

[FreeInChrist]

This is true, Jesus was placed in the Grave just before sundown on Wednesday, which was Passover and the preparation day for the First day of Unleavened bread, (Thursday that week, A Sabbath) and was raised from the dead just before Sundown on Saturday. 3 days and 3 nights. When Mary left home after the (weekly) Sabbath, while it was still dark, He was already risen. It is very cool that you understand this. Many, who come in Christ's Name, do not.

I don't think it was because they are Idiots. My mom believed this to her dying day, which was last Monday. She wasn't an idiot, she was just devoted to her adopted Methodist religion, and was deceived. I'm sure there were many wonderful Moms in Jesus Time just as devoted to the mainstream religions of their time as my Mom was, and were shouting "Crucify Him" right along with the rest. Truly I would have too, had I not turned away from this world's religious system and studied for my self.

Good for you FreeInChrist.

I have been aware of this for a couple of decades now.

Among other seemingly inconsistencies in the bible.

That is why it no longer bothers me that on the Friday before the accepted day of Easter no longer to places close for 3 hours... it is just business as usual.

The other thing if you are truly serious about doing a good study , which will take you into research
along with the bible is go pinpoint the year of Jesus' birth... Hint. while there are others who maintain many differing dates a careful study likely will lead you to 6BC... at the latest 5BC.

And also the year of the crucifixion... another careful study into calendars (assorted) and writings from back then most likely is 30AD with a possibility of 29AD (I refuse to say CE.)

And on this everyone else be quiet because I have studied this long and hard and I provide suggestions for Studyman, if he so chooses to follow through.... If you want to pick a bone with me on this one...
let's do it elsewhere.

 

[FreeInChrist]

The “The Skeleton Dance” can fix that right up.

 

[Studyman]

I have been aware of this for a couple of decades now.

Among other seemingly inconsistencies in the bible.

That is why it no longer bothers me that on the Friday before the accepted day of Easter no longer to places close for 3 hours... it is just business as usual.

The other thing if you are truly serious about doing a good study , which will take you into research
along with the bible is go pinpoint the year of Jesus' birth... Hint. while there are others who maintain many differing dates a careful study likely will lead you to 6BC... at the latest 5BC.

And also the year of the crucifixion... another careful study into calendars (assorted) and writings from back then most likely is 30AD with a possibility of 29AD (I refuse to say CE.)

And on this everyone else be quiet because I have studied this long and hard and I provide suggestions for Studyman, if he so chooses to follow through.... If you want to pick a bone with me on this one...
let's do it elsewhere.

Thanks for the reply. For me, it is of little consequence when Jesus was born. It was so inconsequential to His Father and Him that they chose not to even address the timing in the Law and Prophets. But Passover, Feast of Unleavened bread, Feast of Weeks, Feast of Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles, all these feasts were important enough to God for me to know, that HE instructed me in a manner in which I can find the exact day of God's Year that they fall on, even all these centuries later. Even the first church of God under His New Priest counted the days correctly so as to be gathered on Pentecost, based on the writings of Moses that were centuries old. Clearly God was pleased with their efforts.

I think this is why Paul said for me not to let men judge me in my participation in the "Feasts of the Lord" detailed in Scriptures, as they are truly shadows of things, many of which are Yet to Come.

When a person thinks about it, what difference does it make to a person what Year Christ was born, or died? A man only lives for a short time. He is said by God and His Son to be judged by his works during his life. It seems more important to "Be diligent" to be found by Him in peace without spot and blameless, or to spend my days Laboring, that I might be accepted of Him, or to spend my time "Seeking the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness". After all, a man who rejects the Sayings of a Christ who was killed 200 years ago, is no different than a man who rejects the sayings of a Christ who was killed 2000 years ago, in my view.

But I will always encourage study of Scriptures for folks "who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality".

 

[101G]

You shouldn't fear this. Understanding the intricacies of the Holy Trinity isn't a requirement for salvation. I believe it is a requirement for maturity and properly presenting the doctrine of God to all of humanity.

101G disagrees and here's why. listen carefully. 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

Knowing this, (one don't have to look this up. this is fact). that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners. "if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" if one do not have sound doctrine, A. one is not in Christ Jesus. and B. will meet the Law. ....... YIKES! .... read it again.

101G.

 

[101G]

NO I AM NOT.

ok, so you don't sit in christ in heavenly places?, maybe because you're not an heir, joint heir? Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

101G.

 

[101G]

Jn 3:13
states that no one has ascended to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, referring to Jesus as the Son of Man.

while on earth in flesh speaking to Nicodemus. at the same time he was in heaven.... Oh my you didn't understand this?

So then on the throne in heaven beside the Father and within us DOES NOT fit your definition.
So then when Jesus said in John 14:16 "16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
clearly states another and is not self. The only way they could be one is to be separate, or Divided,

another ERROR on your part. listen for the last time... LEARN, "Diversity" or the EQUAL SHARE.... ok. now who sent the Holy Spirit?
John 14:16 "16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" NOW HEAR THIS, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" so, who sent the Holy Spirit?


and lastly, is JESUS the Holy Spirit, read 1 John 2:1 and look up the term, "advocate", checkmate.....

101G.