Once a Son, Always a Son

[Doug Brents]

and James makes the difference between a real faith with works and a false faith with no works. he is dismantling the claims of the religionist. John says the same thing they went out from of because they were not of us if the were of us they would of remained. John like James tells us what real faith looks like and does/acts verses a so-called faith that produces bad fruit.

hope this helps !!!

But James is making it clear that these were not those who were not of us. He is talking about those of us, those who are part of us, part of the Kingdom, who stray from the truth. These are not people who are among us but not united to us. These are brothers and sisters in Christ, people who were once saved but have fallen away from the truth.

 

[civic]

Even sons.

Apparently.

Makes you think.

you will know them by their fruits.

 

[civic]

But James is making it clear that these were not those who were not of us. He is talking about those of us, those who are part of us, part of the Kingdom, who stray from the truth. These are not people who are among us but not united to us. These are brothers and sisters in Christ, people who were once saved but have fallen away from the truth.

he is talking about those who are making claims just like John does in his epistles.

Here is the first clue.

" IF " someone says.................

 

[Doug Brents]

he is talking about those who are making claims just like John does in his epistles.

Here is the first clue.

" IF " someone says.................

James says nothing about "IF" someone says anything. He says, "My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you strays from the truth and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that the one who has turned a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."

 

[Johann]

You are correct that the phrase "sons of the kingdom" is a reference to the biological children of Israel. But that does not mean that Dizerner's assertion that we can lose our salvation is incorrect. James 5:19-20 makes it very clear that we can lose our salvation. James is talking to the Brothers and Sisters within the Church. And he says that "if anyone among you". You who? The brothers and sisters in Christ (the saved). If anyone of you strays from the truth he becomes a sinner and is again dead in sin. But if someone turns him back, he will save that soul (that was again lost) from being condemned to eternal death in Hell.

I believe some clarification is in order here.


1) When a brother among us errs, wanders, or is seduced from the truth, by moral departure or doctrinal heresy, a stronger brother should try and may be able to rescue him or convert him from the danger of God's chastisement in this life, and the loss of rewards, Gal_6:1; 2Jn_1:8-9.

2) Every child of God is "his brother's keeper" by love, fellowship, prayer, and laboring together, 1Jn_1:7; 1Co_3:9.



James 5:19-20:
"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

Jas 5:19 My brothers, if any one of you has wandered away from the truth, and someone brings him back,
Jas 5:20 you may be sure that whoever brings a sinner back from his evil ways will save the man's soul from death, and cover up a multitude of sins.


The phrase "if any of you do err from the truth" suggests someone wandering from sound doctrine or godly living, not necessarily someone losing salvation.

The word "convert" (ἐπιστρέψῃ, epistrepsēi) means to turn back or return-often used for repentance and restoration, not initial salvation (*Luk_22:32; Act_3:19).

"Save a soul from death" does not necessarily mean eternal damnation—it can refer to physical death or severe consequences of sin (*1Co_11:30; 1Jo_5:16).

The phrase "hide a multitude of sins" aligns with Proverbs 10:12, where covering sin speaks of restoration and forgiveness, not salvation loss.

2. Who Is the "Erring One"?
There are two primary views:

A Straying Believer in Need of Restoration

James is addressing believers ("brethren"), so this could refer to a Christian falling into serious sin but not losing salvation.

Scripture teaches believers can backslide and need restoration (*Gal_6:1; Psa_51:12).


Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anybody is caught in the very act of doing wrong, you who are spiritual, in the spirit of gentleness, must set him right; each of you continuing to think of yourself, for you may be tempted too.
Gal 6:2 Practice bearing one another's burdens, and in this way carry out the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if anybody thinks he is somebody when really he is nobody, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:4 Everyone should test his own work until it stands the test, and then he will have ground for boasting with reference to himself alone, and not with reference to someone else.
Gal 6:5 For everyone must carry his own load.

The danger is God’s discipline (*Heb_12:6-11; 1Co_11:30), not loss of salvation.
A Professing Christian Who Never Truly Believed

Some in the church may have professed faith but never truly been born again (*Mat_7:21-23; 1Jo_2:19).

If they "err from the truth," it may indicate they were never truly saved, and turning them back would mean leading them to genuine faith (2Co_13:5).

3. Eternal Security and Biblical Evidence
True believers cannot lose salvation because salvation is a work of God, not man (*Joh_10:28-29; Rom_8:38-39).
Believers who sin are chastened by God, not lost (Heb_12:6-11).
Salvation is eternal life, not conditional life (*Joh_3:16; Joh_6:37-39).

James 5:19-20 does not teach loss of salvation but rather the importance of restoring those who have strayed. The "soul from death" likely refers to either physical consequences of sin or turning an unbeliever to true faith. This passage aligns with the biblical teaching that salvation, once received, is permanent and cannot be lost.

Thanks.

J.

 

[civic]

James says nothing about "IF" someone says anything. He says, "My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you strays from the truth and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that the one who has turned a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."

sinner is a term for an unbeliever is the N.T. not a born agains believer who is identified as a saint, holy one.

hope this helps !!!

 

[mailmandan]

and James maks the difference between a real faith with works and a false faith with no works. he is dismantling the claims of the religionist. John says the same thing they went out from of because they were not of us if the were of us they would of remained. John like James tells us what real faith looks like and does/acts verses a so-called faith that produces bad fruit.

hope this helps !!!

Amen! In regard to James 5:19-20, notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died".

"Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life". The word "psuche" is never translated as "spirit." In 1 Corinthians 5:5, we read - I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (no second death).

Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).

 

[civic]

James says nothing about "IF" someone says anything. He says, "My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you strays from the truth and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that the one who has turned a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."

There is no way anyone can read Jesus teachings in the gospels and walk away thinking He did not command and demand obedience to be His disciple. Faith and obedience are 2 sides of the same coin. Jesus said if you love Me you will obey His commands.

Here is what Jesus and the Apostles taught about obedience, personal holiness and sin. The author of Hebrews 12:14 says: without holiness no man will see the Lord.


Jesus teaching


Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 6:46
Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

Luke 11:28
Blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it

John 8:31
If you hold to My teaching you are truly My disciples

John 15:14
You are My friends if you do what I command you

John 13:17
If you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

John 14:15
If you love Me you will keep My commandments

John the disciple whom Jesus loved teaching:


1 John 2
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.


1 John 2
Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

1 John 2
If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

1 John 3
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

1 John 4
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith

Paul's teaching:


Romans 6:1
Shall we continue in sin that grace might abound ? May it NEVER be !

Galatians 5
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Colossians 3
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Ephesians 2
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.


Titus 2:11-15
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we would live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age; 13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works. 15 Say these things and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one despise you.

Peters Teaching


1 Peter 1
Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

1 Peter 4
As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.

2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


What I'm addressing is the issue of not having to obey Christ and the Apostles teaching( antinomianism ) for example on loving God and others a universal command in both testaments for all believers all times in all places. We don't get to say I'm saved by faith alone and then treat everyone in an unloving way. That attitude, idea makes a mockery out of Jesus when He was our example of how to love others, what that looks like and the Apostles in their writings sure understood that basic/core teaching that all men will know you are my disciples by your love for one another. That is how we are light/salt on this earth. Jesus should be seen and heard through us as His Ambassadors. We as believers represent Christ wherever we are at home, neighborhood, work, vacation etc...... We are missionaries with the gospel in our areas of influence. Jesus and the Apostles taught about bearing fruit, doing " good works : as per Ephesians 2:8-10 that God created us for and prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We will all stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ and give an account with our lives and what we have done or not done for Christ with our life and opportunities He has sett before us as per 1 Cor 3 and 5 and Romans 12. These refer to believers that give an account of their lives to Christ, and therefor it says: knowing the fear of the Lord we persuade men.

Romans 14:10–12 “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God”

Corinthians 5:10 “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

Romans 6:1-14
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.


Do you find it hypocritical that some believe the opposite of what Paul and Jesus taught that you can continue in sin that grace might abound ? Romans 6:1 ?


Don't you know that those who practice sin shall not enter the kingdom of God ?


1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


See the PAST TENSE in the passage ?


1- you were sinners practicing sin

2- you were washed

3- you were sanctified

4- you were justified


1 Corinthians 5:11-13
But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you


Galatians 5:19-22
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Also I'm not promoting sinless perfectionism.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

continued below :

The Abundant life one that is a fruitful life. We can learn many truths from Gods creation and the way He designed things to work.

God created plants to fruit and propagate themselves. Jesus cursed the fig tree. Why? It was green but did not bear fruit so He cursed the tree. A good tree brings forth good fruit. You will know them by their fruits. God is life and created man and plants to bring forth life. I came that you might have life and life abundantly. A fruitful life is Gods design for us. The Fruit of the Spirit in us is our evidence we have life (the Spiritual life, born of the Spirit) which God created us for His good works that He prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. We are Gods workmanship created for that purpose.

The parable of the sower in which the good soil produces much fruit. God did not create man, animals and plants to look good but to multiply, bear fruit, procreate. They(we) are agents of life to bring forth fruit, life. We are created in Gods image to bring forth life, to be fruitful and multiply.

It’s the nature of God to send, distribute, equip, empower and to set free. Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to accomplish this in our life. Jesus had to leave to give us the Holy Spirit. Jesus greatest thing He did as a leader of men was to leave. He removed Himself to give us His Spirit. And the result was to Be fruitful!

Sin brought forth death, unfruitfulness, thorns, thistles, labor etc….

Gods truth like water is designed to bring forth life/fruit. Truth is not an end to itself but the foundation for life. Fruit brings glory to God. Salvation is not the end game either but fruit in your life, good works. Faith without works/fruit is dead. James 2:17

Philippians 1:9-11
And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, 10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ; 11 having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

Titus 3:14
And our people must also learn to devote themselves to good works in order to meet the pressing needs of others, so that they will not be unfruitful.

James 3:18
Peacemakers who sow in peace reap the fruit of righteousness.

John 15:8
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Psalm 1:2-3
But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
Which yields its fruit in its season
And its leaf does not wither;
And in whatever he does, he prospers.

Ezekiel 47:12
Along both banks of the river, fruit trees of all kinds will grow. Their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. Each month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will be used for food and their leaves for healing.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Truth is from God and lies are from satan. This is the cosmic battle but the ultimate reality of the battle is that one leads to Life and the other leads to death.

The Parable of the Talents Matthew 25

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

hope this helps !!!

 

[Johann]

11 "And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
12 "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 8:11-12 NKJ)

I'll give you the context @Dizerner

Context of Matthew 8:11-12
This passage occurs in the context of Jesus healing the centurion’s servant in Capernaum (Mat_8:5-13). The centurion, a Gentile, displayed great faith, acknowledging Jesus' authority to heal from a distance. Jesus marveled at his faith and contrasted it with the lack of faith among Israel, leading to His statement in Matthew 8:11-12.

Meaning of "Many Will Come from East and West"

This phrase refers to Gentiles who will come to faith and be included in the Messianic kingdom.

"East and west" is a common Jewish expression for all nations (*Psa_107:3; Isa_43:5-6).

This aligns with prophecies that Gentiles will be grafted into God's covenant blessings (*Isa_2:2-3; *Isa_11:10; Mal_1:11).

The banquet motif (sitting with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) refers to the eschatological feast (Isa_25:6-9), fulfilled in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev_19:9).

Who Are "The Sons of the Kingdom"?

The phrase "sons of the kingdom" (υἱοὶ τῆς βασιλείας) normally refers to those belonging to the kingdom by natural right.
In this context, it refers to unbelieving Jews who expected automatic entry due to their lineage from Abraham (Joh_8:33-39).

Though they were physically the descendants of Abraham, they lacked faith, and faith, not ethnicity, is the condition for entering the kingdom (Rom_9:6-8).

Parallel in Matthew 21:43: "The kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits thereof."

John the Baptist warned of this in Matthew 3:9: "Do not say, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones."

Jesus rebukes the presumption that Jewish descent guarantees salvation; rather, faith in Him is the key (Rom_10:9-13).

Gentiles will be included in God’s redemptive plan, fulfilling His promise to bless all nations through Abraham (Gen_12:3).
The rejection of Christ leads to judgment, foreshadowing the national rejection of Israel and the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. (Luk_19:41-44).

This passage reinforces the necessity of faith over ethnicity, privilege, or religious heritage (Gal_3:26-29).

Thanks.

J.

 

[Dizerner]

Sons I have reared and brought up,

But they have rebelled against Me. (Isa. 1:2)​

​

Once a son, always a son.

 

[Doug Brents]

sinner is a term for an unbeliever is the N.T. not a born agains believer who is identified as a saint, holy one.

hope this helps !!!

A sinner is one who sins. Even a saint who claims he has no sin is a liar (and thus sinning in the act of saying he has no sin)(1 John 1:8). And James is not talking about those who have not been saved. He is talking about us, the Brothers and Sisters in Christ, and one among us who LEAVES the truth. You cannot leave the truth if you never had it in the first place.

 

[mailmandan]

Sons I have reared and brought up,

But they have rebelled against Me. (Isa. 1:2)​

​

Once a son, always a son.

See verses 1-4. Who is being addressed here in the book of Isaiah? Sons of God (spiritually speaking) in the NT (Galatians 3:26) or physical Israel in the OT? Its the latter. Context is key.

 

[Doug Brents]

There is no way anyone can read Jesus teachings in the gospels and walk away thinking He did not command and demand obedience to be His disciple. Faith and obedience are 2 sides of the same coin. Jesus said if you love Me you will obey His commands.

Also I'm not promoting sinless perfectionism.

We are not talking about sinless perfectionism, nor are we talking about not obeying Christ Jesus.

We are talking about someone who had the truth, who was a brother or sister in Christ, who was saved and united with Christ and the Church, but who falls from the truth into unrepentant sin. That person is bound for Hell, but can be saved from death and have that sin covered over (by the blood of Christ) if one who is still faithful RESTORES such a one (see also Gal 6:1).

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

this is easy.

a son is born into a family. a son can not birth himself. he is birthed.

Hence he can not unbirth himself. He can not make himself go back to before his mother and father came together.

So in reality. a son will always be the son, because he could not make himself a son, hence he can not unmake himself

 

[Johann]

We are talking about someone who had the truth, who was a brother or sister in Christ, who was saved and united with Christ and the Church, but who falls from the truth into unrepentant sin. That person is bound for Hell, but can be saved from death and have that sin covered over (by the blood of Christ) if one who is still faithful RESTORES such a one (see also Gal 6:1).

Your assertion that someone who was genuinely saved and united with Christ can fall away into unrepentant sin and be bound for Hell is not supported by scripture when we examine the full counsel of the Bible.

The New Testament teaches that those who are truly saved are secure in Christ and cannot lose their salvation (cf. John 10:28-29, Romans 8:38-39). The warnings in passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and 2 Peter 2:20-22 seem to describe false believers or those who have had an external experience with the gospel but never experienced true regeneration.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I have already told you so, but you do not believe me. The works which I am doing on my Father's authority are my credentials,
Joh 10:26 but still you do not believe in me, for you do not belong to my sheep.
Joh 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them and they follow me,
Joh 10:28 and I give to them eternal life, and they shall never get lost, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My father who gave them to me is stronger than all, and no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 The Father and I are one."


Rom 8:35 Who can separate us from Christ's love? Can suffering or misfortune or persecution or hunger or destitution or danger or the sword?
Rom 8:36 As the Scripture says: "For your sake we are being put to death the livelong day; we are treated like sheep to be slaughtered."
Rom 8:37 And yet in all these things we keep on gloriously conquering through Him who loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I have full assurance that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor the present nor the future
Rom 8:39 nor evil forces above or beneath, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God as shown in Christ Jesus our Lord.



Restoration, as described in Galatians 6:1, refers to bringing someone back into fellowship with the church, not saving them from eternal damnation.

True believers who sin will be disciplined by God and restored through repentance (cf. 1 John 1:9, Hebrews 12:6), but they will not lose their salvation.

This view is consistent with the eternal security of the believer and the biblical understanding of salvation as a work of God that cannot be undone by human failure.

J.

 

[Believe]

We are not talking about sinless perfectionism, nor are we talking about not obeying Christ Jesus.

We are talking about someone who had the truth, who was a brother or sister in Christ, who was saved and united with Christ and the Church, but who falls from the truth into unrepentant sin. That person is bound for Hell, but can be saved from death and have that sin covered over (by the blood of Christ) if one who is still faithful RESTORES such a one (see also Gal 6:1).

Jesus makes sure the we do not " fall from the truth into unrepentant sin". God will sustain you to the end.
Both Matthew 18 and Luke 15 record Jesus’ parable about a shepherd who leaves 99 sheep in the fold to go in search of one that had wandered away.

There are many more.

“And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day” John 6:39


I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Cor. 1:4–9

This is one of the clearest and most striking declarations of God’s commitment to preserve and protect his children all the way through to the end when Jesus returns.

This is unmistakably a promise, not a wish, not a let’s-hope-it-all-turns-out-okay sort of affirmation. Paul says that Jesus Christ “will” sustain you—not might sustain you, not may sustain you, not he’ll-give-it-his-best-shot-but-who-knows-if-he-can-pull-it-off sort of expectation.


The sustaining is something Jesus does. He will “sustain” you. And Jesus never fails.

What Does the Bible Say About He Will Never Fail Me?

Bible verses about He Will Never Fail Me

www.openbible.info

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

this is easy.

a son is born into a family. a son can not birth himself. he is birthed.

Hence he can not unbirth himself. He can not make himself go back to before his mother and father came together.

So in reality. a son will always be the son, because he could not make himself a son, hence he can not unmake himself

Amazing answer. Thank you for the insight!

 

[Doug Brents]

Your assertion that someone who was genuinely saved and united with Christ can fall away into unrepentant sin and be bound for Hell is not supported by scripture when we examine the full counsel of the Bible.

The New Testament teaches that those who are truly saved are secure in Christ and cannot lose their salvation (cf. John 10:28-29, Romans 8:38-39). The warnings in passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and 2 Peter 2:20-22 seem to describe false believers or those who have had an external experience with the gospel but never experienced true regeneration.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I have already told you so, but you do not believe me. The works which I am doing on my Father's authority are my credentials,
Joh 10:26 but still you do not believe in me, for you do not belong to my sheep.
Joh 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them and they follow me,
Joh 10:28 and I give to them eternal life, and they shall never get lost, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My father who gave them to me is stronger than all, and no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 The Father and I are one."

This is a great passage, and it teaches us many things. But it does not teach us that we cannot fall from grace. It says that we cannot be taken from God, but it does not say that He will restrain us if we choose to cease our love for Him. We can walk away from Him and lose all the blessings we have in Him if we choose to do so. We cannot accidentally fall away, and we cannot be taken by Satan, but we can be fooled into leaving God voluntarily.

Rom 8:35 Who can separate us from Christ's love? Can suffering or misfortune or persecution or hunger or destitution or danger or the sword?
Rom 8:36 As the Scripture says: "For your sake we are being put to death the livelong day; we are treated like sheep to be slaughtered."
Rom 8:37 And yet in all these things we keep on gloriously conquering through Him who loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I have full assurance that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor the present nor the future
Rom 8:39 nor evil forces above or beneath, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God as shown in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 8:35-39 is a great passage, but the Love of God is not the same as the salvation of God. God loved us while we were still sinners. He loved us even when we were still His enemies. And He will continue to love us even when He sends the vast majority of us to Hell. But His love does not make Him force us into obedience. He still demands that we love Him back, and obey what He commands, and it it through this obedience (faith) that we receive salvation.

Restoration, as described in Galatians 6:1, refers to bringing someone back into fellowship with the church, not saving them from eternal damnation.

If that were the only passage about it then I could see how you get that idea. But when you read it in connection with James 5:19-20, you see that it does indeed refer to saving a soul from eternal damnation (death).

True believers who sin will be disciplined by God and restored through repentance (cf. 1 John 1:9, Hebrews 12:6), but they will not lose their salvation.

If they repent. But if they do not repent then they lose their salvation.

This view is consistent with the eternal security of the believer and the biblical understanding of salvation as a work of God that cannot be undone by human failure.

The view that salvation cannot be undone by human failure is a false doctrine that does not stand up to even a cursory survey of the history of Israel in the OT.