Once a Son, Always a Son

The scripture says that it does, to go against that would be adding to scripture.

Romans 10:13

For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Acts 2:21

And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’
Or could it be a taking away from his word that is in regard to what OSAS teaches? If it's not a taking away then where in place is the truth of Jesus IF you continue in my word? John 8:31

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

One could only continue if they were truly in it at one time and if they were in it they were saved. It even says above that they believed on him.
 
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

One could only continue if they were truly in it at one time and if they were in it they were saved. It even says above that they believed on him.
Exactly, That's what it says and that's what it means. There's nothing there about not believing. if you continue. Doesn't say anything about if you stop believing. It's in encouragement. Proof that you are his disciples. On the other hand if you don't believe in him and you don't continue in his word you're not one of his disciples you're an unbeliever.
 
Well just off the top of my head I'm thinking like an altar call. Accepting Jesus into your heart. That prayer we say to him asking him to forgive us telling him that we believe in him and we want to follow him. I totally agree with you, Obedience is extremely important, That shows that he is our Lord.
Please show me any evidence in Scripture that points to some prayer "asking him to forgive us telling him that we believe in him and we want to follow him" that leads to salvation. I have been searching for it for years, and have asked hundreds of people to show me where it is, but no one can show me.
I've heard a lot of different testimonies on how people came to Jesus I think the end result of that is when they call on the name of the Lord to save them.
Look at when Scripture says that we are saved: Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14. When do these passages say our sins are removed? Not when we ask God to save us, but when we are baptized into Christ.
One of the things Jesus made clear was when he said "They'll know you are my disciples by your love for one another" It's sad to see Christians spewing hate and discontent towards each other. But then the Bible does say we all sin and fall short of the glory of God.
I agree wholeheartedly. Love is the key fruit that should be in all our lives; love toward one another, and love toward the lost.
 
Please show me any evidence in Scripture that points to some prayer "asking him to forgive us telling him that we believe in him and we want to follow him" that leads to salvation. I have been searching for it for years, and have asked hundreds of people to show me where it is, but no one can show me.

Look at when Scripture says that we are saved: Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14. When do these passages say our sins are removed? Not when we ask God to save us, but when we are baptized into Christ.

I agree wholeheartedly. Love is the key fruit that should be in all our lives; love toward one another, and love toward the lost.
Calling on the name of the Lord in regards to our salvation... That's actually an interesting topic that I've never really done a deep dive into. I'll start a thread about it and maybe we both can learn something.

 
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Thanks for such an interesting thread, @Wilber.
Here are my two cents:

In the parable of the Prodigal Son, Jesus makes it clear that no man can degrade enough as to lose the love of God, just as no son can degrade enough as to lose the love of his father (or even better, his mother).
The situation of the Prodigal Son in its worst point is fully comparable with the state of spiritual death. That's why the Father says "For this my son was dead" (Luke 15:24)
Jonah, crying for help from the belly of the fish where his disobedience had led him, also equaled his situation with death: “Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice." (Jonah 2:2)

Once a son, always a son, because once loved, always loved.
God's love does not depend on what we do, but on what He is.

A person can be in any sort of abyss, like the prodigal son or Jonah, and still be loved by God.
Now replace "abyss" by hell, Sheol, Hades, spiritual death, in the sentence above.

A person may have thrashed from his side his sonship with God. But God has not thrashed from His side his fatherhood with such person.

The fact of being loved by God does not prevent us from falling into the abyss of suffering, hell, death.
However, the fact of being loved by God guarantees the possibility of redemption.

Some will want to call the phenomenon of falling into the abyss "to lose one's salvation". Some others will disagree.
But I don't find as relevant the criticism or defense of "Once Saved, Always Saved". I find much more useful the defense of "Once Loved, Always Loved". Love is what brings about salvation. Love is the hallmarked of a saved person. So, any meaningful soteriology must start and end in love.

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Many professing Christians are not possessing Christians (are not real Christians). “All that glitters is not gold.” Only true Christians are on their way to heaven.
Amen! There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard finding them mixed together in Scripture, in various churches and on various Christian forum sites.
 
But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. (Matt. 8:12 NKJ)
God’s love reaches even those who are in outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Are men spirits in prison? He reaches out.
Are men naked, hungry and lonely feeding the pigs? He reaches out.
Are men lost in the desert, unable to return to the flock? He reaches out.
Are men in the darkness of the belly of a fish in the ocean? He reaches out.
Are men dead in their sins? He reaches out.
Are men speaking against the Son of God? He reaches out (Mat 12:32)

That’s indeed God’s specialty. He’s so good at it! He always wins.
Salvation is not given to us because we deserve it, but because God loves us so much.
 
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If you really believed that, you wouldn't call God a monster if you didn't get it.
Please read my post again:
“Salvation is not given to us because we deserve it, but because God loves us so much.

You’re focusing on what we do and deserve.
We already know that men have been naked, sick, hungry and lonely feeding the pigs.
We already know that men who have betrayed the love of their father shouldn’t be treated as sons any more.

My invitation for you, however, is to think of what Our Father is.
So, a father who sends his son to eternal torture is a monster father. You, as a father, wouldn’t do it… Because you’re not a monster, but a loving father. Jesus had a reason to use the figure of parental love as symbol of forgiveness in the Kingdom of God.
 
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But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. (Matt. 8:12 NKJ)
The phrase "sons of the kingdom" here is a Jewish term for the nation of Israel. This is not referring to born again Christians losing their salvation. Being born into the nation of Israel will not guarantee someone a place in heaven, as was commonly thought among the Jewish people. Instead, Jesus is emphasizing that faith in Him, faith like that of the Roman centurion will be the deciding factor about who is allowed into the kingdom.
 
The phrase "sons of the kingdom" here is a Jewish term for the nation of Israel. This is not referring to born again Christians losing their salvation. Being born into the nation of Israel will not guarantee someone a place in heaven, as was commonly thought among the Jewish people. Instead, Jesus is emphasizing that faith in Him, faith like that of the Roman centurion will be the deciding factor about who is allowed into the kingdom.
Absolutely correct.

The phrase "sons of the kingdom" in Matthew 8:12 refers to Israelites who presumed they had a guaranteed place in God's kingdom based on their ethnic lineage as descendants of Abraham, yet rejected Jesus as the Messiah. The broader context of Matthew 8:5-13 records the interaction between Jesus and the Roman centurion, whose faith surpassed that of many in Israel, leading to Jesus’ statement that Gentiles would enter the kingdom while many Jews would be excluded.

1. The Immediate Context: The Centurion’s Faith vs. Israel’s Unbelief
In Matthew 8:5-10, the Roman centurion—a Gentile—demonstrates great faith in Jesus’ authority, acknowledging that Christ could heal his servant by simply speaking a word (+Mat_8:8, *Luk_7:6-7).

Jesus marvels at the centurion’s faith and declares that He has not found such faith even in Israel (+Mat_8:10, *Joh_1:11).
In contrast, Jesus warns that many Israelites, who should have been the natural heirs of the kingdom, would be cast out due to their unbelief.

2. Sons of the Kingdom: A Title of Covenant Privilege
The term "sons of the kingdom" elsewhere in Scripture refers to those who are rightful heirs to God’s promises.
+Mat_13:38 ("The field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom").

In Matthew 8:12, however, Jesus ironically reverses the meaning—the very people who were supposed to inherit the kingdom would be excluded due to their rejection of Him.

Paul reiterates this in Romans 9:6-8, explaining that not all physical descendants of Abraham are truly God’s children, but rather those who have faith (*Joh_8:39-40, +Gal_3:7-9).

3. Outer Darkness: A Picture of Judgment
The phrase "cast out into outer darkness" is one of Jesus’ strongest depictions of final judgment.
Darkness represents separation from God’s presence (*2Th_1:9, *Jud_1:13).
Weeping and gnashing of teeth indicate intense regret and anguish (+Mat_13:42, *Luk_13:28).
This phrase is used multiple times in Matthew, always describing those who expected to enter the kingdom but were instead rejected (*Mat_22:13; *Mat_25:30).

Faith, Not Heritage, Grants Entrance to the Kingdom

This passage shows that being a physical descendant of Abraham does not guarantee salvation.
Entrance into God's kingdom is based on faith in Christ, not ethnicity or religious background (*Joh_3:3-5, +Eph_2:8-9).
Jesus’ statement foreshadows the inclusion of Gentiles in the kingdom while many unbelieving Jews would be excluded (+Act_13:46, +Rom_11:20-23).

Cross-References for Further Study:
+Mat_21:43 ("The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof").
+Luk_13:28-29 ("There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth… and they shall come from the east, and from the west, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God").
+Joh_8:44 ("Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do").
+Rom_2:28-29 ("He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly... but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly").
+Gal_4:28-30 ("Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise... Cast out the bondwoman and her son").

Context is king.

Johann.
 
The phrase "sons of the kingdom" here is a Jewish term for the nation of Israel. This is not referring to born again Christians losing their salvation. Being born into the nation of Israel will not guarantee someone a place in heaven, as was commonly thought among the Jewish people. Instead, Jesus is emphasizing that faith in Him, faith like that of the Roman centurion will be the deciding factor about who is allowed into the kingdom.
yes context is king in understanding scripture and rightly dividing the word of truth. its why cults thrive because you can make scripture say anything you want when passages get isolated from the greater context of scripture.
 
But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. (Matt. 8:12 NKJ)
The phrase "sons of the kingdom" here is a Jewish term for the nation of Israel. This is not referring to born again Christians losing their salvation. Being born into the nation of Israel will not guarantee someone a place in heaven, as was commonly thought among the Jewish people. Instead, Jesus is emphasizing that faith in Him, faith like that of the Roman centurion will be the deciding factor about who is allowed into the kingdom.
yes context is king in understanding scripture and rightly dividing the word of truth. its why cults thrive because you can make scripture say anything you want when passages get isolated from the greater context of scripture.
You are correct that the phrase "sons of the kingdom" is a reference to the biological children of Israel. But that does not mean that Dizerner's assertion that we can lose our salvation is incorrect. James 5:19-20 makes it very clear that we can lose our salvation. James is talking to the Brothers and Sisters within the Church. And he says that "if anyone among you". You who? The brothers and sisters in Christ (the saved). If anyone of you strays from the truth he becomes a sinner and is again dead in sin. But if someone turns him back, he will save that soul (that was again lost) from being condemned to eternal death in Hell.
 
You are correct that the phrase "sons of the kingdom" is a reference to the biological children of Israel. But that does not mean that Dizerner's assertion that we can lose our salvation is incorrect. James 5:19-20 makes it very clear that we can lose our salvation. James is talking to the Brothers and Sisters within the Church. And he says that "if anyone among you". You who? The brothers and sisters in Christ (the saved). If anyone of you strays from the truth he becomes a sinner and is again dead in sin. But if someone turns him back, he will save that soul (that was again lost) from being condemned to eternal death in Hell.
and James makes the difference between a real faith with works and a false faith with no works. he is dismantling the claims of the religionist. John says the same thing they went out from of because they were not of us if the were of us they would of remained. John like James tells us what real faith looks like and does/acts verses a so-called faith that produces bad fruit.

hope this helps !!!
 
yes context is king

God called them sons of his kingdom, the clear context is ONE VERSE RIGHT BEFORE IT.

11 "And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
12 "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 8:11-12 NKJ)


Jesus did not switch up the kingdom he's referencing just to confuse everyone and protect OSAS, lol.

Context is king.
 
Context is king.

God called them sons of his kingdom, the clear context is ONE VERSE RIGHT BEFORE IT.

11 "And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
12 "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 8:11-12 NKJ)


Jesus did not switch up the kingdom he's referencing just to confuse everyone and protect OSAS, lol.

Context is king.
 
God called them sons of his kingdom, the clear context is ONE VERSE RIGHT BEFORE IT.

11 "And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
12 "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 8:11-12 NKJ)


Jesus did not switch up the kingdom he's referencing just to confuse everyone and protect OSAS, lol.

Context is king.
not everyone who say to Me Lord Lord will enter My kingdom declared Jesus.
 
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