Omniscience????

[Studyman]

How is time constrained? Jesus said He was beginning and end. Did that constrain Jesus?

As a man, Time most certainly constrained Him. He did not start preaching the second HE came out of the Womb. He had to "Grow". EVERYTHING ruled by the realm of "Time" we live in, has a beginning and an end. But the realm God exists in doesn't.

This what you're saying here. That because there is a mention of a current subset of "time" ending, thusly all "time" is ending.

I too, have considered this same thought. Is there a realm called "Time" where there is no beginning and no end? How can a human comprehend such a thing. And perhaps there is a different realm of Time that God exists in or existed in before HE created all that we know.

For me, it makes sense that God knows the end from the beginning, because HE created Time as we know it, and holds Time as we know it in His Hands, and therefore knows my beginning and my end, from the foundation of the world because HE has already seen it.

There are seasons for everything. Every thing in its own good time......

This is certainly true in the world God created for us.

Order. Purpose. This doesn't mean that time itself ends......

The Scriptures speak of a time when the heavens and earth will be gone, replace by a new heavens and a new earth.

And something called "Eternity" will come to be for us who only Live in this world "for a time".

I spend a great deal of my "time" in Scriptures and have pondered on this topic for many years. Perhaps you are right, and there is a different realm of Time that exists where God is. It's an interesting topic for me, and I appreciate your thoughts and your points. Someday I hope to find out about this existence, where there is NO END.

 

[Studyman]

Got it....

When Jesus said he was going to prepare a place. Did it already exist? Even if you say that it already existed, then it certainly was about to change.

What I see in "creation" relative to humanity is not an origin story of God. I see solely an origin story of mankind.

Absolutely, that is the very foundation of my point, and my understanding. All we know is the "origin (Beginning) story of humans". There is no beginning for God. Does the place where Jesus goes to prepare a place for me already exist? Wouldn't this be the place where Jesus was, "when HE was up where HE was before"? And how would it change? Well, having you and me in it, would certainly be a change, Given He is the first and only human inhabitant.

Seasons/times, all vary to some degree and yet are similar to the "time" in which they appear as designed. Some of these questions and answers are paradoxical. They have two meanings that seemingly contradict one another yet we can know they exist in harmony with one another.

They are certainly above my paygrade, Nevertheless, I wanted to share my perspective, such as it is.

If all "creations" exist within time, then I certainly don't believe man is the first of God's creations. Angels preexist us. Who knows what else preexists us. I see no scenario wherein time doesn't exist.

I do, not that my understanding matters. Do angels get old? Are they born? Can they die? I can't know these things, and perhaps you are right, and Time also exists in the realm God existed in before HE created all we can know.

I started with this premise about 25 years ago and I haven't seen anything that has changed my mind. As I've studied the nature of God, I've come to determine that order and sequence are essential to reason. Cause and effect. God is certain cause and is at least willingly subject to effect. I see no scenario wherein this limiting God. Time is order without end. At the very least sequence without end. The measure of time is different. It is relative to experience.

I hope this helps you understand my position. I appreciate your input.

That is an interesting definition of Time, "Order without End". Something for me to consider. Thanks for the insight.

You have a great day PY

 

[praise_yeshua]

As a man, Time most certainly constrained Him. He did not start preaching the second HE came out of the Womb. He had to "Grow". EVERYTHING ruled by the realm of "Time" we live in, has a beginning and an end. But the realm God exists in doesn't.

Okay. Does that mean time is a result of sin? Or was it good in the eyes of God?

I think appealing to what our existence became as evidence of what it has always been isn't necessarily a good method of interpretation.

I too, have considered this same thought. Is there a realm called "Time" where there is no beginning and no end? How can a human comprehend such a thing. And perhaps there is a different realm of Time that God exists in or existed in before HE created all that we know.

For me, it makes sense that God knows the end from the beginning, because HE created Time as we know it, and holds Time as we know it in His Hands, and therefore knows my beginning and my end, from the foundation of the world because HE has already seen it.

I take a predictability approach to what God knows relative to change. I personally do not see a requirement of Divinity to know everything changeable that is in the power of another. (not God).

For example, I have no moral or Scriptural compulsion to believe that God ultimately meticulously controls what shall be. He limits such via His proclamation of death. Bad things happen beyond the desire of God that such things NOT be.......

God values the sincerity of "will" above many many things. I see this planet as a prison. A dying garden planted with seeds destined for Eternal states of existence. This is a complex discussion to have but I willing to have it. It might be more suited for a video conference of sort. I'm willing to have one if you're willing.

The Scriptures speak of a time when the heavens and earth will be gone, replace by a new heavens and a new earth.

And something called "Eternity" will come to be for us who only Live in this world "for a time".

I spend a great deal of my "time" in Scriptures and have pondered on this topic for many years. Perhaps you are right, and there is a different realm of Time that exists where God is. It's an interesting topic for me, and I appreciate your thoughts and your points. Someday I hope to find out about this existence, where there is NO END.

If you have Eternal life, right now, you have no end!....

The privileges' of knowing Jesus Christ as Savior. When you in Genesis where God said "let us make man in our own image"..... That is an open ended statement of purpose. Our (humanity's) entire existence is what it takes to "make man in God's image". Jesus Christ was the target brother. Nothing less than the empathetic proclamation of love of God literally written in the death of Christ could accomplish such.

What manner of love that has bestowed upon us that we "might" become the sons of God.

You ask questions that require more time than I have at the moment. I know I keep saying this to you but these are good conversations to have but they cause so many questions.

 

[TomL]

How is time constrained? Jesus said He was beginning and end. Did that constrain Jesus?

This what you're saying here. That because there is a mention of a current subset of "time" ending, thusly all "time" is ending.

There are seasons for everything. Every thing in its own good time......

Order. Purpose. This doesn't mean that time itself ends......

Its clearly not a logical argument

 

[Studyman]

Okay. Does that mean time is a result of sin? Or was it good in the eyes of God?

I am not judging God, or His creation. My question is "Did God create Time, as we know it?

I think appealing to what our existence became as evidence of what it has always been isn't necessarily a good method of interpretation.

I'm saying the opposite of what you are implying I'm saying. I'm saying that before the World that we know existed, and I truly believe that God existed "BEFORE" HE created the World we know, that Time, as we know it, didn't exist, therefore "it has not always been" as it was when the first Adam and the Last Adam walked the earth..

I take a predictability approach to what God knows relative to change. I personally do not see a requirement of Divinity to know everything changeable that is in the power of another. (not God).

For example, I have no moral or Scriptural compulsion to believe that God ultimately meticulously controls what shall be.

Nor do I. Just because HE saw something happen as a result of His creation, doesn't mean HE "made it happen". For instance, a good example of my understanding is the Eve story. God gave Eve free will, placed her in a garden with a deceiver, yet gave her instruction how to Live. What happened wasn't God making her listen to the deceiver, and then making her reject God's instruction and follow the deceiver's instruction. Did HE know what would happen, according to Scriptures HE did. I believe HE knew, because HE already saw it, because HE is not constrained by the "Time" HE created. He can go "Back in Time" and see exactly what happened" and HE can go "into the Future" and see exactly what will happen. He is not held by the same constraints as we are, or even Jesus the man. As it is written;

Matt. 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth "no man", no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

We humans, and angels it seems, are therefore constrained by the elements of TIME that God is not constrained by.

So please don't misunderstand me here, I don't believe God makes everything that happens, happen. But HE declares it, because HE was there and saw it, and chooses to reveal what will happen to those who HE wishes to reveal it to.

He limits such via His proclamation of death. Bad things happen beyond the desire of God that such things NOT be.......

Absolutely. As He said, "Why will you die"?

God values the sincerity of "will" above many many things. I see this planet as a prison. A dying garden planted with seeds destined for Eternal states of existence. This is a complex discussion to have but I willing to have it. It might be more suited for a video conference of sort. I'm willing to have one if you're willing.

I'm not opposed to discussing such things. And they are interesting to ponder. But Jesus Himself instructed me not to worry about such things. And I believe I understand why. He gave me power to "DO" things in the "NOW"! I have no power from God to change or do anything in the past, nor do I have any power to do anything in the future. The only place where God has given me any power to "Be humble", Love others, be obedient, etc., etc., is right "NOW".

Matt. 6: 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

When can I "seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness"? Can I "do" this Yesterday? Can I "do" this tomorrow? No! In the realm God Created and placed me in, the "Only Time" I have been given any power from God to "DO" what my Lord instructed, is in the "NOW".

And I have a lot of Nows throughout the day, because God is Long Suffering. But my "Nows" are not forever. At some point my "TIME" will come to an end, and my "Nows" will stop. I agree with you 100% that the planet is the garden God placed me in. And I am a prisoner of "Time" because I cannot know when my "Time" is over, and my last "Now" will come, as it comes as a thief in the Night.

Scripturally speaking, these things are absolute Truth. And therefore, I take them seriously and don't waste my "TIME" adopting, defending or justifying popular religious philosophies of this world, promoted by the "Other voices" in the Garden that God placed me in, "who professes to know God".

It's really not that complex, if a person breaks it down like this. As it is written;

Duet. 6: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. 9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

When can a man do these things? Yesterday? NO, I have no power "Yesterday", I had the chance, and now it's gone. Tomorrow? NO!, I don't even know for sure if I will be living tomorrow, and even if I do, I cannot go there and "DO" anything.

The only "TIME" in which God gave me power to "Live By" His Words, is "NOW".

How cool is that.

If you have Eternal life, right now, you have no end!....

But eternal live is something that men do not have. It must be given to them from a God with the power to give it. Until HE gives it, I am constrained by the "Time" God created for me to live in.

The privileges' of knowing Jesus Christ as Savior. When you in Genesis where God said "let us make man in our own image"..... That is an open ended statement of purpose. Our (humanity's) entire existence is what it takes to "make man in God's image". Jesus Christ was the target brother. Nothing less than the empathetic proclamation of love of God literally written in the death of Christ could accomplish such.

There are a lot of men, or as this Jesus said, "MANY", who claim to know Jesus. I have come to understand, from listening to Him, that it is more important that this same Christ knows me.

I agree that the perfection in Christ, is the goal. And as Paul teaches,

Phil. 3: 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, (the Nows, the next now, and the next now) 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

As it is written, "Today, (NOW) if you hear His voice, harden not your hearts.

What manner of love that has bestowed upon us that we "might" become the sons of God.

Amen brother.

You ask questions that require more time than I have at the moment. I know I keep saying this to you but these are good conversations to have but they cause so many questions.

And unlike those who exist only to justify themselves or their adopted religion, you ponder the questions, and address them, even answering them. And you acknowledge the Scriptures posted and make great points as one who has studied, not for the purpose of self-justification, but as one who is "Seeking the Kingdom of God, and HIS Righteousness".

A breath of fresh air for a fellow seeker. And I thank God for that.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am not judging God, or His creation. My question is "Did God create Time, as we know it?

I'm going to break apart our conversations into multiple responses for my own clarity of thought.

I also don't believe I am judging God. Just asking the moral questions relative to God's being. There are moral implications to any thoughts of accepting a viable hypothesis. Jesus associated Beginning and End with Alpha and Omega. Two Greek letters in a language of men denoting an entirety of a whole that contains many pieces. This makes "time" as a whole..... "unique" and existing above the subset of creations relative to God's existence.

Such is true of love. Love is both a creation in us and an attribute of God. A part of God's essence. Love must be experienced to understand. It must be lived for us. However, for God.... it is paradoxically WHO He is.

So I'm basically making the argument that Time is sequence. Which is essential to any sense of order. Even with God. As such, it is an essential quality of Divinity/Deity.

If you were to ask me "can we go back or forward in time?""". My answered would be "NO". Because this would demand that God change at a fundamental level of existence even for Divinity/Deity. I hope this clarifies my positions. We often talk past one another in these types of conversation. Our positions are so fundamentally opposed to one another that there is little common ground to be found in the positions. However, I fully believe that I am being more accurate and true to the Scriptures than the position you're espousing. ( I know this is part of discovery in the conversation).

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm saying the opposite of what you are implying I'm saying. I'm saying that before the World that we know existed, and I truly believe that God existed "BEFORE" HE created the World we know, that Time, as we know it, didn't exist, therefore "it has not always been" as it was when the first Adam and the Last Adam walked the earth..

I know. I'm not sure how what I said gave you the impression that I didn't understand this. Sorry. To me, this is the most common position relative to basis construct of the argument.

C.S. Lewis was a very influential Anglican. In my mind, he basically started this "concept" that is found in modern Christian thought.

He did this in opposition to the teaching of Calvinistic doctrines. He came up with a premise to support Omniscience from an Arminian perspective. He need a way of presenting God as knowing all things past, present and future. I've asked other people before to establish the necessity of Omniscience relative to Deity. I've never meet anyone who could do just that. God is God no matter what man insist He is. I think no less of God because He doesn't meticulously know every single detail of all things past and future. In fact, to say such things. Fully quantifies God. If God knows all things as most people reference them..... then ever how large that "sum" is.... it is still quantifiable. Thusly, you're quantifying God.

It really is a empty argument to me. I believe God is unquantifiable in His Entirety. Even though we can certain know somewhat about Him now.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Nor do I. Just because HE saw something happen as a result of His creation, doesn't mean HE "made it happen". For instance, a good example of my understanding is the Eve story. God gave Eve free will, placed her in a garden with a deceiver, yet gave her instruction how to Live. What happened wasn't God making her listen to the deceiver, and then making her reject God's instruction and follow the deceiver's instruction. Did HE know what would happen, according to Scriptures HE did. I believe HE knew, because HE already saw it,

I knew that is what you believe. I knew it because this is a common position within "Reformed Theology". It is true of Arminian and many Calvinists. I've argued this for a long time among Christians. If the forums at bible.org were still around I would show what I said 25 years ago with those that hold this position. It is not new to me.

Ultimately, I disagree completely. God knew it for a certainty because He was there... when it happened. God is not absent everything that exists when it exists.

because HE is not constrained by the "Time" HE created. He can go "Back in Time" and see exactly what happened" and HE can go "into the Future" and see exactly what will happen. He is not held by the same constraints as we are, or even Jesus the man.

I need to stop and ask you really pay attention to what you wrote here......

You're saying that GOD MUST.... travel..... to KNOW... something.

There is a larger context of "reason" here. The question must be asked.....

Does God reason?

If that answer is YES. The you have sequence. You have a thought predicated upon a previous action/event. This requires sequence. One can not exist without the other.

Please explain how God "travels"?

I'm not trying to be "smart" here. I'm not. I believe your response brings us to "equal ground" here. You insist that time is not necessary but yet you insist that time is necessary."

So we get to the point of defining TIME.

Which I have defined repeatedly for 25 years that time is "sequence". Precept upon precept. Line upon line. Thought upon thought. All existing in order from beginning to end of a endless duration. Eternity.

 

[civic]

I'm going to break apart our conversations into multiple responses for my own clarity of thought.

I also don't believe I am judging God. Just asking the moral questions relative to God's being. There are moral implications to any thoughts of accepting a viable hypothesis. Jesus associated Beginning and End with Alpha and Omega. Two Greek letters in a language of men denoting an entirety of a whole that contains many pieces. This makes "time" as a whole..... "unique" and existing above the subset of creations relative to God's existence.

Such is true of love. Love is both a creation in us and an attribute of God. A part of God's essence. Love must be experienced to understand. It must be lived for us. However, for God.... it is paradoxically WHO He is.

So I'm basically making the argument that Time is sequence. Which is essential to any sense of order. Even with God. As such, it is an essential quality of Divinity/Deity.

If you were to ask me "can we go back or forward in time?""". My answered would be "NO". Because this would demand that God change at a fundamental level of existence even for Divinity/Deity. I hope this clarifies my positions. We often talk past one another in these types of conversation. Our positions are so fundamentally opposed to one another that there is little common ground to be found in the positions. However, I fully believe that I am being more accurate and true to the Scriptures than the position you're espousing. ( I know this is part of discovery in the conversation).

And to have a mind/ thought/ plan etc … there must be sequence. How can there be relationships based on God is love without them within the Trinity prior to creation ?

 

[TomL]

And to have a mind/ thought/ plan etc … there must be sequence. How can there be relationships based on God is love without them within the Trinity prior to creation ?

All that is living experiences sequence - time

 

[civic]

All that is living experiences sequence - time

Ditto

 

[TomL]

I'm going to break apart our conversations into multiple responses for my own clarity of thought.

I also don't believe I am judging God. Just asking the moral questions relative to God's being. There are moral implications to any thoughts of accepting a viable hypothesis. Jesus associated Beginning and End with Alpha and Omega. Two Greek letters in a language of men denoting an entirety of a whole that contains many pieces. This makes "time" as a whole..... "unique" and existing above the subset of creations relative to God's existence.

Such is true of love. Love is both a creation in us and an attribute of God. A part of God's essence. Love must be experienced to understand. It must be lived for us. However, for God.... it is paradoxically WHO He is.

So I'm basically making the argument that Time is sequence. Which is essential to any sense of order. Even with God. As such, it is an essential quality of Divinity/Deity.

If you were to ask me "can we go back or forward in time?""". My answered would be "NO". Because this would demand that God change at a fundamental level of existence even for Divinity/Deity. I hope this clarifies my positions. We often talk past one another in these types of conversation. Our positions are so fundamentally opposed to one another that there is little common ground to be found in the positions. However, I fully believe that I am being more accurate and true to the Scriptures than the position you're espousing. ( I know this is part of discovery in the conversation).

The future does not exist yet and the past no longer exists - Presentism

 

[Studyman]

I'm going to break apart our conversations into multiple responses for my own clarity of thought.

I also don't believe I am judging God. Just asking the moral questions relative to God's being.

You asked;

"Okay. Does that mean time is a result of sin? Or was it good in the eyes of God?"

To answer your question, I would have to make a judgment of God concerning Time. My question posed, "Did God create Time as we know it" has nothing to do with good or evil. I didn't say "you" were judging God, you simply asked a question that wasn't relevant to my post, that would cause me to make a judgment if I were to answer you. You asked, "is time good"? Is it caused by evil (Sin)?

I replied, "I am not judging God, or His creation. My question is "Did God create Time, as we know it?"

Come on sir, you just said, "Just asking the "moral questions" relative to "God's being".

You didn't make a judgment, you asked me to make a judgment. I simply declined. Please don't twist it into something it was not.

There are moral implications to any thoughts of accepting a viable hypothesis. Jesus associated Beginning and End with Alpha and Omega.

No, Jesus said, "I am the beginning and the end". Therefore, He exists in my past, present and unknown to me future. Where I can only be in the NOW.

Two Greek letters in a language of men denoting an entirety of a whole that contains many pieces. This makes "time" as a whole..... "unique" and existing above the subset of creations relative to God's existence.

Okay?????

Such is true of love. Love is both a creation in us and an attribute of God. A part of God's essence. Love must be experienced to understand. It must be lived for us. However, for God.... it is paradoxically WHO He is.

So I'm basically making the argument that Time is sequence. Which is essential to any sense of order. Even with God. As such, it is an essential quality of Divinity/Deity.

My argument, if you will, is that God created Time, and holds it in His Hands like a globe. Therefore, He exists in my future, my past and my present at the same time. He knows my end from my beginning, because for Him, my end has already happened, HE is there right now. But I can't see it, because I don't have power to go back in my past, where God exists, and I don't have power to go into my future, where God exists. Because I am constrained by the elements of "Time", as we know it, while God is not, because God is "Omniscient".

"Time", as we know it, is past, present and future. Since God has no beginning and no ending, HE is not bound by or constrained by "Past, present or future", (Time) because He is not subject to His Own Creations, in my view.

If you were to ask me "can we go back or forward in time?""". My answered would be "NO". Because this would demand that God change "at a fundamental level of existence" even for Divinity/Deity.

Why would God need to change in order to exist in my future or my past? Is HE a man, like us? I have a beginning and an end, God doesn't. Consider your words here. Because "YOU" can't go into your past or your future, you seem to teach that God can't exist there either. I believe God exists in my future, "Right Now". But because of the constraints of "Time" that God created and placed me in, I can't see it and must "WAIT" with patience.

Jer. 1: 4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

God was in Jeremiah's future before Jeremiah was even born, at least according to Scriptures.

I disagree with your stated position, given what is written about the "Omniscience" of God.

I hope this clarifies my positions. We often talk past one another in these types of conversation. Our positions are so fundamentally opposed to one another that there is little common ground to be found in the positions. However, I fully believe that I am being more accurate and true to the Scriptures than the position you're espousing. ( I know this is part of discovery in the conversation).

Of course, you believe your position is the correct one, or you wouldn't post it.

Nevertheless, either God created "Time" as we know it, or HE is subject to "Time" as we know it.

My position is that God created everything in this world He placed us in, including "Time" as we know it and is not subject to any of His Creations. You are fundamentally opposed to the belief that God created "Time" as we know it.

We can't both be right. And you have yet to bring forth any scriptures, which would give support to your popular religious belief, that "Time" restrains or holds the fundamental existence of God, to the present, like it does us.

It seems the Scriptures I have referenced, reveals a God who is not held by the same restraints of "Time" that we are.

Either way, it is always good to examine and discuss what is actually written in Scriptures, in my view.

 

[Jim]

If all "creations" exist within time, then I certainly don't believe man is the first of God's creations. Angels preexist us. Who knows what else preexists us. I see no scenario wherein time doesn't exist.

Time is a physical entity of this physical creation. There is absolutely no indication, theologically or otherwise, that time exists outside of the created universe.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Time is a physical entity of this physical creation. There is absolutely no indication, theologically or otherwise, that time exists outside of the created universe.

Can I point out that you're discerning this through a metaphysical existence. Your knowledge is predicated upon a metaphysical existence. God has a metaphysical existence. You can not remove metaphysical constructs from God.

Have you heard of the term "Spiritual Metaphysics"?

God is MORE than just imaginations.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The future does not exist yet and the past no longer exists - Presentism

The present is not without the past. The past is settled but establishes the present. "Order". Absent "Order" there is only chaos. Destruction. Desolation.

I believe that sounds familiar. Satan seeks such. God withstands Satan's desires.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You asked;

"Okay. Does that mean time is a result of sin? Or was it good in the eyes of God?"

To answer your question, I would have to make a judgment of God concerning Time. My question posed, "Did God create Time as we know it" has nothing to do with good or evil. I didn't say "you" were judging God, you simply asked a question that wasn't relevant to my post, that would cause me to make a judgment if I were to answer you. You asked, "is time good"? Is it caused by evil (Sin)?

I replied, "I am not judging God, or His creation. My question is "Did God create Time, as we know it?"

Come on sir, you just said, "Just asking the "moral questions" relative to "God's being".

You didn't make a judgment, you asked me to make a judgment. I simply declined. Please don't twist it into something it was not.

I'm not. Never did. You saw a requirement that I did not establish. Feel free to answer however you like but don't question my integrity. I'm not a liar and I only care about the Truth in this conversation we are having. We may misunderstand one another but there no intent in my part to "twist" anything.

At this point, I'm rightfully recognizing that you questioned my integrity. You are the first in "our" conversation to question my integrity . Stop it.

 

[Jim]

Can I point out that you're discerning this through a metaphysical existence. Your knowledge is predicated upon a metaphysical existence. God has a metaphysical existence. You can not remove metaphysical constructs from God.

Have you heard of the term "Spiritual Metaphysics"?

God is MORE than just imaginations.

There is nothing in the Bible that says otherwise. And that is the only source of any knowledge outside of this physical universe.

 

[praise_yeshua]

There is nothing in the Bible that says otherwise. And that is the only source of any knowledge outside of this physical universe.

Feel free to go back through this thread and deal with my comments concerning the Scriptures that say otherwise. You can begin with Jesus associating Himself with the Great "I AM" (God) in declaring Himself "Beginning and End". "Alpha and Omega". A paradoxical expression represent the entirety of His own personal existence. It is an expression that establishes that His essence is a duration of time without end.

Thusly, I feel confident in saying that Eternity is not the absence of time but an endless measure of time.

There is no such thing as the "Eternal Now".

 

[civic]

Feel free to go back through this thread and deal with my comments concerning the Scriptures that say otherwise. You can begin with Jesus associating Himself with the Great "I AM" (God) in declaring Himself "Beginning and End". "Alpha and Omega". A paradoxical expression represent the entirety of His own personal existence. It is an expression that establishes that His essence is a duration of time without end.

Thusly, I feel confident in saying that Eternity is not the absence of time but an endless measure of time.

There is no such thing as the "Eternal Now".

Yes just because we finite beings cannot wrap our minds around it doesn't mean its not true since Jesus used words, phrases implying time existing outside of our realm which you demonstrated by the things Jesus said about Himself. He also said the First and the Last.