Omniscience????

[TomL]

Depravity is the referenced reason for inability. As we grow in knowledge and understanding our inabilities vanish. Knowledge enables. Depravity is used in both Arminianism and Calvinism to establish a lack of innate ability absent Grace when God has Graciously enabled man to innately reason and grow in knowledge. Thusly there is no difference in any mans abilities absent any physical disabilities to learn.

Both of the positions are fundamentally wrong in how they teach the innate qualities of a human descendent of Adam.

The difference is Calvinism requires regeneration and Arminianism prevenient grace. These two however are not the only possibilities

 

[TomL]

Tom.... You said that only possibilities exist in the future.

This creates double talk when addressing the issue. You can't deny this. You have a narrative you must maintain. I only care about the truth. That is enough for me. I don't care to drive a doctrinal narrative that is less than adequate.

You are going to have to take my word for it. No open theist denies God determines some things and what he determined happens

but it has not happened yet as presentism holds only the present currently exists.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You are going to have to take my word for it. No open theist denies God determines some things and what he determined happens

but it has not happened yet as presentism holds only the present currently exists.

You do not know all Open Theists. They are many differences among them in how they construct their beliefs. Also, they've changed significantly from the late 90s to today.

I reject "presentism" as you've constructed above. I believe the past is largely immutable and may very well exist at some metaphysical level at this very moment. I believe the Resurrection of the Saints of God is as good as certain and "written" in the very Nature/Character of God. I believe in the tangible metaphysical "Nature/Character" of God and that it never changes. I believe this "image" of God is displayed in the Eternal metaphysical existence of Jesus Christ. As such His future is certain and immutable.

This is a complex construct that is at "times" paradoxical and beyond our understanding.

 

[TomL]

You do not know all Open Theists. They are many differences among them in how they construct their beliefs. Also, they've changed significantly from the late 90s to today.

I reject "presentism" as you've constructed above. I believe the past is largely immutable and may very well exist at some metaphysical level at this very moment. I believe the Resurrection of the Saints of God is as good as certain and "written" in the very Nature/Character of God. I believe in the tangible metaphysical "Nature/Character" of God and that it never changes. I believe this "image" of God is displayed in the Eternal metaphysical existence of Jesus Christ. As such His future is certain and immutable.

This is a complex construct that is at "times" paradoxical and beyond our understanding.

Nor do you, but If you want to rebut that claim you can name an open theist who affirms God never determined anything

 

[praise_yeshua]

Nor do you, but If you want to rebut that claim you can name an open theist who affirms God never determined anything

That is not my argument. That is your exaggeration. In fact, I've said things here that you've read that could never add up to what you just wrote.

My issue is with the terminology and the attitude they employ and you've chosen to repeat. What God has irrevocably determined is not a mere possibility.

Is the Resurrection merely a possibility? Do you care to provide an English definition that establishes your claim relative to God's irrevocable purpose?

 

[TomL]

That is not my argument. That is your exaggeration. In fact, I've said things here that you've read that could never add up to what you just wrote.

My issue is with the terminology and the attitude they employ and you've chosen to repeat. What God has irrevocably determined is not a mere possibility.

Is the Resurrection merely a possibility? Do you care to provide an English definition that establishes your claim relative to God's irrevocable purpose?

Again no open theist disagrees

What God determined will transpire

 

[praise_yeshua]

Again no open theist disagrees

What God determined will transpire

This is getting ridiculous. I explained myself and you "double down". You both are misrepresenting the Truth by claiming that that there are only possibilities in the future. That is what you've said. This is dishonest and dishonorable.

You're as bad at this as any Calvinist I have ever meet. I've tried to get you to change. Do whatever you want. I'll leave you alone.

 

[TomL]

This is getting ridiculous. I explained myself and you "double down". You both are misrepresenting the Truth by claiming that that there are only possibilities in the future. That is what you've said. This is dishonest and dishonorable.

You're as bad at this as any Calvinist I have ever meet. I've tried to get you to change. Do whatever you want. I'll leave you alone.

Read again

I confirmed all Open theists affirm what God determines will transpire

That is my view and the view of open theists but the future has yet to happen




I do not

 

[TomL]

Here's a thought for you/

He is omniscient and aware of every little detail including our thoughts. Let's discuss this in detail, as it should be interesting.

In Psalm 139:1-2, David tells us: “O LORD, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar.”

This is not classic omniscience which insists his knowledge is innate and unregenerate

 

[TomL]

This is not classic omniscience which insists his knowledge is innate and unregenerate

For a good understanding of the positions

 

[TomL]

Here's a thought for you/

He is omniscient and aware of every little detail including our thoughts. Let's discuss this in detail, as it should be interesting.

In Psalm 139:1-2, David tells us: “O LORD, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar.”

It appears God learned here by searching the heart of David

That supports Dynamic omniscience rather than classic omniscience