Omniscience????

You should, as a courtesy that you have admonished others for refusing, answer my questions first. In this heaven and in this earth, that the God "of the Bible" created, "Can the expanse of time called the "DAY", exist without the Sun that God created"? Yes, or no!

Upon receiving your answer, I can then work to answer your question, which I am glad to do.
There is no need for the sun or the moon for time to exist.

next fallacious question
 
There is no need for the sun or the moon for time to exist.

next fallacious question

Of course you didn't answer my question. Here, I will ask it again.

"In this heaven and in this earth, that the God "of the Bible" created, "Can the expanse of time called the "DAY", exist without the Sun that God created"? Yes, or no!
 
Of course you didn't answer my question. Here, I will ask it again.

"In this heaven and in this earth, that the God "of the Bible" created, "Can the expanse of time called the "DAY", exist without the Sun that God created"? Yes, or no!
Of course it can and it did for the first 4 days of creation

Next
 
If you would have actually read my post, you would know that I referenced the Revelation verse had to do with the "End of Time", or as other translations said, "No more delay".

Which simply means the time for the event had arrived

It did nothing to establish a belief that time was created
 
Last edited:
Sorry, no such thing as "theistic fatalism". Fatalism has no causation and is impersonal.

Are you fated to die or is it causally determined by God?? DODGE TIME
Your denial is deep

Sorry you claim fatalism has no cause is false

Why do you keep on making up your definition

fa·tal·ism
[ˈfādlˌizəm]
noun

the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable:




Fatalism​

First published Wed Dec 18, 2002; substantive revision Thu Feb 23, 2023
Though the word “fatalism” is commonly used to refer to an attitude of resignation in the face of some future event or events which are thought to be inevitable, philosophers usually use the word to refer to the view that we are powerless to do anything other than what we actually do. This view may be argued for in various ways: by appeal to logical laws and metaphysical necessities; by appeal to the existence and nature of God; by appeal to causal determinism. When argued for in the first way, it is commonly called “Logical fatalism” (or, in some cases, “Metaphysical fatalism”); when argued for in the second way, it is commonly called “Theological fatalism”.
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

and what is posted above plainly refutes you
 
Of course it can and it did for the first 4 days of creation

Next

"Day time" and "Night time" didn't exist until God created the heavens and the earth. God made the Sun to rule over the "day time" and the Moon to rule over the "Night Time" He created, and said " and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

I posed the question, "What if Time itself as we know it, is also a creation of Almighty God", (The God of the Bible) given HE has no beginning "time" and no end "time" in that HIS Life is not measured by days, weeks and years, But HE can see the end of my life time, from my beginning of my lifetime, "because" it is measured by days and weeks and years.

You are free to disagree.
 
"Day time" and "Night time" didn't exist until God created the heavens and the earth. God made the Sun to rule over the "day time" and the Moon to rule over the "Night Time" He created, and said " and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

I posed the question, "What if Time itself as we know it, is also a creation of Almighty God", (The God of the Bible) given HE has no beginning "time" and no end "time" in that HIS Life is not measured by days, weeks and years, But HE can see the end of my life time, from my beginning of my lifetime, "because" it is measured by days and weeks and years.

You are free to disagree.
I’m correct since there were days prior to the sun and moon existing .

Next
 
Which simply means the time for the event had arrived

Yes, like "Last Great Day".

It did nothing to establish a belief that time was created

It was one verse of many which speak of an inevitable "end of time". An event Created by God for all mortals, in my understanding.

Matt. 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

You are free to believe as you wish.
 
Yes Civic, God's creation took six days, not one. He created Day time and Nighttime, 3 days before HE created the Sun to rule over them, "for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years".

You are correct.
So time can exist apart from the sun, moon and stars . That was my point and God does not calculate time / days like man.

I’ve debated people who claim to be Christians yet deny the literal 6 dats of creation because the sun and moon were created in day 4, so for them it’s just allegory.

My position has always been since God by nature is Miraculous therefor science cannot explain Gods miracles. The 6 days of creation are all miraculous. Everything God does when He intervenes is supernatural.
 
So time can exist apart from the sun, moon and stars . That was my point and God does not calculate time / days like man.

God is not held by the same forces of Time that HE created for humans, I agree. I don't know that I agree that God doesn't "Calculate" time "like men" for humans, as it was HE who created the "DAY" and the "12 hours in the day", and the 7 days that make a week, and the months and seasons as shown by the position of the Sun and Moon HE placed in the heavens. A system of calculating "Time" for humans that has not changed even one iota since HE created them.

My 11 year old grandson made a sun dial in their driveway last week. He was so proud of showing it to Grandpa. That contraption was surprisingly accurate according to what time of the day it was, Truly God is amazing, to create a system of Time that is exactly the same today, as it was when Adam and Eve walked the earth. I think about this sometimes. How the Sun, and Moon and planets we can see, haven't changed since ancient times, since God created them and placed them there to rule over the Time HE created for us. Who can even comprehend such Glory and Wisdom and Power?

But I do agree that God is not subject to or held in bondage to this system of "Time" He created. Does "TIME" as we know it exist for God who has no end or beginning? I think it's clear it doesn't. Is there another Realm of "TIME" HE is subject to?

If Time is defined by space, with any beginning and any end, then I don't believe time exists in the Kingdom of God.

I’ve debated people who claim to be Christians yet deny the literal 6 dats of creation because the sun and moon were created in day 4, so for them it’s just allegory.

I believe all that is written. It took six days to create everything we can see or know, including the realm of "Time" God created that we are undeniably subject to. The "only" realm of TIME which exists in our world.

Did "Time" exist before God created Day time and Night time, including morning and evening? I don't think so. Did Day time and night time exist before God created the Sun and Moon to rule over them? Yes, as you pointed out.

My position has always been since God by nature is Miraculous therefor science cannot explain Gods miracles. The 6 days of creation are all miraculous. Everything God does when He intervenes is supernatural.

True science is simply the study of nature which exists in the world God created. I can see your point and agree in part. But even Jesus said to consider the flowers and the birds. While science cannot explain "how" God takes care of them, science can surely show that they are being cared for.

This subject of Time has been a topic of great interest and study for me for the last several of years. I have found that "Time" as we know it, consists of "Past, Present and Future". God can go back in Time, HE can be here in the "Now" and HE can go into the future. Whereas I, can only exist in the "Now". I have no power given me by God to go back in time and be a "Doer" of the Christ's Sayings, I have been given no power from God to go into the Future and be a "Doer of Christ's Sayings". The ONLY "TIME" that I receive power from God to be a Doer of Christ's Sayings is "NOW". As it is written "Today (NOW), if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts".

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day (NOW) is the evil thereof.

As long as I am alive, I have "Nows" in which to exercise the power God has given me, to be a doer, not a hearer only of the sayings of the Christ. But at some point, this "TIME" that God created for me will come to an END. An "END" God already knows, but I don't. So what shall I do with the power God has given me, but "Yield myself to God" at this "Time", "Now", as Paul teaches. As it is written.

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

1 Cor. 7: 19 Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

And all this because, in my understanding, at some point the "Time" God created for us, will come to an end.
 
God is not held by the same forces of Time that HE created for humans, I agree. I don't know that I agree that God doesn't "Calculate" time "like men" for humans, as it was HE who created the "DAY" and the "12 hours in the day", and the 7 days that make a week, and the months and seasons as shown by the position of the Sun and Moon HE placed in the heavens. A system of calculating "Time" for humans that has not changed even one iota since HE created them.

My 11 year old grandson made a sun dial in their driveway last week. He was so proud of showing it to Grandpa. That contraption was surprisingly accurate according to what time of the day it was, Truly God is amazing, to create a system of Time that is exactly the same today, as it was when Adam and Eve walked the earth. I think about this sometimes. How the Sun, and Moon and planets we can see, haven't changed since ancient times, since God created them and placed them there to rule over the Time HE created for us. Who can even comprehend such Glory and Wisdom and Power?

But I do agree that God is not subject to or held in bondage to this system of "Time" He created. Does "TIME" as we know it exist for God who has no end or beginning? I think it's clear it doesn't. Is there another Realm of "TIME" HE is subject to?

If Time is defined by space, with any beginning and any end, then I don't believe time exists in the Kingdom of God.



I believe all that is written. It took six days to create everything we can see or know, including the realm of "Time" God created that we are undeniably subject to. The "only" realm of TIME which exists in our world.

Did "Time" exist before God created Day time and Night time, including morning and evening? I don't think so. Did Day time and night time exist before God created the Sun and Moon to rule over them? Yes, as you pointed out.



True science is simply the study of nature which exists in the world God created. I can see your point and agree in part. But even Jesus said to consider the flowers and the birds. While science cannot explain "how" God takes care of them, science can surely show that they are being cared for.

This subject of Time has been a topic of great interest and study for me for the last several of years. I have found that "Time" as we know it, consists of "Past, Present and Future". God can go back in Time, HE can be here in the "Now" and HE can go into the future. Whereas I, can only exist in the "Now". I have no power given me by God to go back in time and be a "Doer" of the Christ's Sayings, I have been given no power from God to go into the Future and be a "Doer of Christ's Sayings". The ONLY "TIME" that I receive power from God to be a Doer of Christ's Sayings is "NOW". As it is written "Today (NOW), if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts".

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day (NOW) is the evil thereof.

As long as I am alive, I have "Nows" in which to exercise the power God has given me, to be a doer, not a hearer only of the sayings of the Christ. But at some point, this "TIME" that God created for me will come to an END. An "END" God already knows, but I don't. So what shall I do with the power God has given me, but "Yield myself to God" at this "Time", "Now", as Paul teaches. As it is written.

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

1 Cor. 7: 19 Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

And all this because, in my understanding, at some point the "Time" God created for us, will come to an end.
In the new heavens and new earth there will no longer be any sun, moon and stars but time will still exist and the tree will bear fruit 12 months of the year as described in Revelation 22. :)
 
In the new heavens and new earth there will no longer be any sun, moon and stars but time will still exist and the tree will bear fruit 12 months of the year as described in Revelation 22. :)

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded (Past tense) her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree "were for" the healing of the nations.

Yes, the Tree of Life that yielded her fruit every month, from the beginning of time (Adam and Eve) to the end of time, was there.

5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign "for ever and ever."

And what was the reason for God creating the Sun? "for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years". While it is true that the Tree of Life yielded her fruit every month of the year, and her leaves were for the healing of the Nations, there is no longer a need "for signs, and for seasons, and for days, (Months) and years". This is after the "End of Time", and those in God's Kingdom will live forever and ever. No longer subject to the limits of Time God created for them and placed on them in the old heavens and the old earth.

Does God redefine Time? Or is HE held captive by the restraints of Time HE didn't create? I do not have enough information from Scriptures to make such a judgment. I am perfectly happy to accept what we know from scriptures, and that is at some point, God's People will no longer be limited by the restraints of "Time" that God created in the beginning of our world but will be free from the constraints of Time to reign with God eternally.

This is my understanding. It's not worth too much argument to me, there are much more important doctrines and traditions of men to consider, in my view.
 
Sorry no it does not speak of the absolute end of time

and only indicate the time for the event had comwe

recall all those verses you ignored

Nor does Mat 24:11 support you as it does not mention an end of time

Matthew 24:9–14 (NASB 2020) — 9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

context show it is the end of a particular age

after that another age is to come

Luke 18:29–30 (ESV) — 29 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.”
 
Sorry no it does not speak of the absolute end of time

and only indicate the time for the event had comwe

recall all those verses you ignored

Nor does Mat 24:11 support you as it does not mention an end of time

Matthew 24:9–14 (NASB 2020) — 9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

context show it is the end of a particular age

Yes, The End of the Age of "Time" the repentant, not God, are subject to in this world, but not in the world to come.

after that another age is to come

Yes, and age in which there is no constraints of time. It's called "Eternity".
Luke 18:29–30 (ESV) — 29 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Yes, An age where there is no more "End Times".
 
Yes, The End of the Age of "Time" the repentant, not God, are subject to in this world, but not in the world to come.

The world (aion) to come is really the age to come


As I noted

Sorry no it does not speak of the absolute end of time

and only indicate the time for the event had come

recall

Nor does Mat 24:11 support you as it does not mention an end of time

Matthew 24:9–14 (NASB 2020) — 9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

context show it is the end of a particular age
Yes, and age in which there is no constraints of time. It's called "Eternity".
Um you provide no support for that claim


One can easily state Eternity = endless time, See lexical entry below

Further there is no greek word for eternity that is not expressed in terms of ages (aions)


Yes, An age where there is no more "End Times".
It is followed by yet another age

neither in this age or the age to come


αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ (Hom.+; Herm. Wr.; inscr., pap., LXX, En., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr., Sib. Or.) time, age.
1. very long time, eternity—a. of time gone by, the past, earliest times, then eternity οἱ ἅγιοι ἀπʼ αἰῶνος προφῆται the holy prophets fr. ages long past (cf. Hes., Theog. 609; Περὶ ὕψους 34, 4 τοὺς ἀπʼ αἰ. ῥήτορας; Cass. Dio 63, 20 τῶν ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰ. Ῥωμαίων; Inschr. v. Magn. 180, 4; Dit., Syll.3 index; Gen 6:4; Tob 4:12; Sir 14:17; 51:8; En. 14, 1; 99, 14; Jos., Bell. 1, 12) Lk 1:70; Ac 3:21; to make known from of old Ac 15:18; πρὸ παντὸς τ. αἰ. before time began Jd 25a (for the combination with πᾶς cf. Sallust. c. 20 p. 36, 5 τὸν πάντα αἰῶνα=through all eternity); pl. πρὸ τῶν αἰ. 1 Cor 2:7 (cf. Ps 54:20 θεὸς ὁ ὑπάρχων πρὸ τῶν αἰ. [PGM 4, 3067 ἀπὸ τ. ἱερῶν αἰώνων]); ἐξ αἰ. since the beginning D 16:4 (Diod. S. 1, 6 al.; Sext. Emp., Math. 9, 62; Dit., Or. 669, 61; Philo, Somn. 1, 19; Jos., Bell. 5, 442; Sir 1:4; Sib. Or., fgm. 1, 16 of God μόνος εἰς αἰῶνα κ. ἐξ αἰῶνος). W. neg. foll. ἐκ τοῦ αἰῶνος οὐκ ἠκούσθη never has it been heard J 9:32,
b. of time to come which, if it has no end, is also known as eternity (so commonly in Gk. lit. Pla.+); εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα (since Isocr. 10, 62; Dit., Syll.3 814, 50 and Or., index VIII; POxy. 41; also Diod. S. 1, 56, 1 εἰς τ. αἰ.=εἰς ἅπαντα τ. χρόνον; 4, 1, 4; PGM 8, 33; 4, 1051 [εἰς αἰ.]; LXX; En. 12, 6; 102, 3; Jos., Ant. 7, 356 [εἰς αἰ.]) to eternity, eternally, in perpetuity: live J 6:51, 58; B 6:3; remain J 8:35ab; 12:34; 1 Pt 1:23 t.r., 25 (Is 40:8); 1J 2:17; 2J 2; be with someone J 14:16. W. neg.=never, not at all, never again (Ps 124:1; Ezk 27:36 al.) Mt 21:19; Mk 3:29; 11:14; 1 Cor 8:13. ἕως αἰῶνος (LXX) 1 Cl 10:4 (Gen 13:15); Hv 2, 3, 3; s 9, 24, 4. εἰς τὸν αἰ. τοῦ αἰῶνος (Ps 44:18; 82:18 al.) Hb 1:8 (Ps 44:7). ἕως αἰῶνος Lk 1:55 v.l.—The pl. is also used (Emped., fgm. 129, 6 αἰῶνες=generations; Theocr. 16, 43 μακροὺς αἰῶνας=long periods of time; Sext. Emp., Phys. 1, 62 εἰς αἰῶνας διαμένει; Sib. Or. 3, 767.—Bl-D. §141, 1), esp. in doxologies: εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, (Ps 60:5; 76:8) Mt 6:13 v.l.; Lk 1:33 (cf. Wsd 3:8); Hb 13:8; εἰς πάντας τοὺς αἰ. (Tob 13:4; Da 3:52b; En. 9, 4; Sib. Or. 3, 50) Jd 25b. εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας to all eternity (cf. Ps 88:53) Ro 1:25; 9:5; 2 Cor 11:31; αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰ. Ro 11:36; more fully εἰς τοὺς αἰ. τῶν αἰώνων (Ps 83:5; PGM 4, 1038; 22b, 15) for evermore in doxologies 16:27; Gal 1:5; Phil 4:20; 1 Ti 1:17; 2 Ti 4:18; Hb 13:21; 1 Pt 4:11; 5:11; 1 Cl 20:12; 32:4; 38:4; 43:6; Rv 1:6; 5:13; 7:12 al. εἰς πάσας τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰ. Eph 3:21 (cf. Tob 1:4; 13:12; En. 103, 4; 104, 5). Of God ὁ ζῶν εἰς τοὺς αἰ. (cf. Tob 13:2; Sir 18:1; Da 6:27 Theod.) Rv 4:9f; 10:6; 15:7.—κατὰ πρόθεσιν τῶν αἰώνων according to the eternal purpose Eph 3:11. All-inclusive ἀπὸ αἰώνων καὶ εἰς τ. αἰῶνας from (past) eternity to (future) eternity B 18:2 (cf. Ps 40:14 and Ps.-Aristot., De Mundo 7 p. 401a, 16 ἐξ αἰῶνος ἀτέρμονος εἰς ἕτερον αἰῶνα; M. Ant. 9, 28, 1 ἐξ αἰῶνος εἰς αἰῶνα; Sib. Or., fgm. 1, 16 of God μόνος εἰς αἰῶνα κ. ἐξ αἰῶνος).
2. a segment of time, age—a. ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος (הַזֶּה הָעוֹלָם) the present age (nearing its end) (cf. Bousset, Rel. 243ff; Dalman, Worte 120ff; Schürer II4 636ff; NMessel, D. Einheitlichkeit d. jüd. Eschatol. ’15, 44-60) contrasted w. the age to come (Philo and Joseph. do not have the two aeons) Mt 12:32. A time of sin and misery Hv 1, 1, 8; s 3:1ff; ending of Mk in the Freer ms. 2; ἡ μέριμνα τοῦ αἰ. (sc. τούτου) the cares of the present age Mt 13:22; cf. Mk 4:19. πλοῦτος earthly riches Hv 3, 6, 5. ματαιώματα vain, futile things Hm 9:4; s 5, 3, 6. πραγματεῖαι m 10, 1, 4. ἐπιθυμία m 11:8; s 6, 2, 3; 7:2; 8, 11, 3. πονηρία s 6, 1, 4. ἀπάται s 6, 3, 3. οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ αἰ. τούτου the sons of this age, the people of the world (opp. sons of light, enlightened ones) Lk 16:8; cf. 20:34.—The earthly kingdoms βασιλεῖαι τοῦ αἰ. τούτου IRo 6:1. συσχηματίζεσθαι τῷ αἰ. τούτῳ be conformed to this world Ro 12:2. As well as everything non-Christian, it includes the striving after worldly wisdom: συζητητὴς τοῦ αἰ. τούτου searcher after the wisdom of this world 1 Cor 1:20. σοφία τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 2:6. ἐν τῷ αἰ. τούτῳ 3:18 prob. belongs to what follows: he must become a fool in (the estimation of) this age. The ruler of this age is the devi1: ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 2 Cor 4:4 (θεός 5). ἄρχων τοῦ αἰ. τούτου IEph 17:1; 19:1; IMg 1:3; ITr 4:2; IRo 7:1; IPhld 6:2; his subordinate spirits are the ἄρχοντες τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 1 Cor 2:6, 8 (ἄρχων 3).—Also ὁ νῦν αἰών: πλούσιοι ἐν τῷ νῦν αἰ. 1 Ti 6:17; ἀγαπᾶν τὸν νῦν αἰ. 2 Ti 4:10; Pol 9:2. Cf. Tit 2:12. Or ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐνεστώς the present age Gal 1:4 (cf. Dit., Syll.3 797, 9 [37 AD] αἰῶνος νῦν ἐνεστῶτος). The end of this period (cf. Sib. Or. 3, 756 μέχρι τέρματος αἰῶνος) συντέλεια (τοῦ) αἰ. Mt 13:39f, 49; 24:3; 28:20; συντέλεια τῶν αἰ. Hb 9:26.
b. ὁ αἰὼν μέλλων (הָעוֹלָם הַבּֿא) the age to come, the Messianic period (on the expr. cf. Demosth. 18, 199; Hippocr., Ep. 10, 6 ὁ μ. αἰ.=the future, all future time; Ael. Aristid. 46, p. 310 D.: ἡ τοῦ παρελθόντος χρόνου μνεία κ. ὁ τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος λόγος; Jos., Ant. 18, 287), in 2 Cl 6:3, cf. Hs 4:2ff, opposed to the αἰὼν οὗτος both in time and quality, cf. Mt 12:32; Eph 1:21; δυνάμεις μέλλοντος αἰ. Hb 6:5. Also αἰ. ἐκεῖνος; τοῦ αἰ. ἐκείνου τυχεῖν take part in the age to come Lk 20:35. ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐρχόμενος Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30; Hs 4:8. ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐπερχόμενος Hv 4, 3, 5: pl. ἐν τοῖς αἰῶσιν τοῖς ἐπερχο-μένοις in the ages to come Eph 2:7. As a holy age ὁ ἅγιος αἰ. (opp. οὗτος ὁ κόσμος) B 10:11 and as a time of perfection αἰ. ἀλύπητος an age free from sorrow 2 Cl 19:4, while the present αἰών is an ‘aeon of pain’ (Slav. Enoch 65, 8).—The plurals 1 Cor 10:11 have been explained by some as referring to both ages, i.e., the end-point of the first and beginning of the second; this view urges that the earliest Christians believed that the two ages came together during their own lifetimes: we, upon whom the ends of the ages have come (JWeiss. A Greek would not refer to the beginning as τέλος. The Gordian knot has οὔτε τέλος οὔτε ἀρχή: Arrian, Anab. 2, 3, 7). But since τὰ τέλη can also mean ‘end’ in the singular (Ael. Aristid. 44, 17 K.=17 p. 406 D.: σώματος ἀρχαὶ κ. τέλη=‘beginning and end’: 39 p. 737 D.: τὰ τέλη. . . δράματος; Longus 1, 23, 1 ms. ἦρος τέλη; Vi. Thu. II 2 τέλη τοῦ πολέμου; Aëtius, Eye Diseases p. 120, 25 Hirschb. after Galen: τὰ τέλη τ. λόγου=the close of the section; Philo, Virt. 182) and, on the other hand, the pl. αἰῶνες is often purely formal (s. above 1a and b, 2a at end) τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰ. can perh. be regarded as equal to τέλος αἰώνων (Sib. Or. 8, 311)=the end of the age (s). Cf. Test. Levi 14:1 ἐπὶ τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰώνων.—For the essential equivalence of sing. and pl. cf. Maximus Tyr. 14, 8b τὰ τῆς κολακείας τέλη beside τέλος τῆς σπουδῆς. Cf. also τέλος 3.
3. the world as a spatial concept (αἰ. in sg. and pl. [Bl-D. §141, 1]: Hippocr., Ep. 17, 34; Diod. S. 1, 1, 3 God rules ἅπαντα τὸν αἰῶνα; Ael. Aristid. 20, 13 K.=21 p. 434 D.: ἐκ τοῦ παντὸς αἰῶνος; Maximus Tyr. 11, 5e; Isisaretal. from Cyrene 4 [103 AD] in WPeek, D. Isishymnus etc. ’30, 129; Ps 65:7; Ex 15:18 [cf. Philo, Plant. 47; 51]; Wsd 13:9; 14:16: 18:4) AP 14. Created by God through the Son Hb 1:2; through God’s word 11:3. Hence God is βασιλεὺς τῶν αἰ. 1 Ti 1:17; 1 Cl 61:2 (cf. PGM 12, 247 αἰώνων βασιλεῦ; Tob 13:7, 11, cf. Act. Phil. 2; 11 Bonnet); πατὴρ τῶν αἰ. 35:3 (cf. Justin, Apol. I 41, 2; Act. Phil. 144, p. 84, 9); θεὸς τῶν αἰ. 55:6 (cf. Sir 36:17; PGM 4, 1163; ThSchermann, Griech. Zauber-pap. 23; Act. Jo. 82). But it is poss. that many of these belong under


William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 27–28.
 
Of course you didn't answer my question. Here, I will ask it again.

"In this heaven and in this earth, that the God "of the Bible" created, "Can the expanse of time called the "DAY", exist without the Sun that God created"? Yes, or no!

Yes.

Planets spin at different rotational speeds. Thusly, a day is a variable. Time is consistent.
 
Yes, and age in which there is no constraints of time. It's called "Eternity".

How is time constrained? Jesus said He was beginning and end. Did that constrain Jesus?

This what you're saying here. That because there is a mention of a current subset of "time" ending, thusly all "time" is ending.

There are seasons for everything. Every thing in its own good time......

Order. Purpose. This doesn't mean that time itself ends......
 
Yes.

Planets spin at different rotational speeds. Thusly, a day is a variable. Time is consistent.

What about before God created the heavens and earth? Time, by its very existence, has a beginning and an end. My question was considering whether or not "time" as we know it, existed before God created the heavens and earth.

You make a good point, but how is time measured in a realm with no beginning and no end?
 
What about before God created the heavens and earth? Time, by its very existence, has a beginning and an end. My question was considering whether or not "time" as we know it, existed before God created the heavens and earth.

You make a good point, but how is time measured in a realm with no beginning and no end?

Got it....

When Jesus said he was going to prepare a place. Did it already exist? Even if you say that it already existed, then it certainly was about to change.

What I see in "creation" relative to humanity is not an origin story of God. I see solely an origin story of mankind.

Seasons/times, all vary to some degree and yet are similar to the "time" in which they appear as designed. Some of these questions and answers are paradoxical. They have two meanings that seemingly contradict one another yet we can know they exist in harmony with one another.

If all "creations" exist within time, then I certainly don't believe man is the first of God's creations. Angels preexist us. Who knows what else preexists us. I see no scenario wherein time doesn't exist. I started with this premise about 25 years ago and I haven't seen anything that has changed my mind. As I've studied the nature of God, I've come to determine that order and sequence are essential to reason. Cause and effect. God is certain cause and is at least willingly subject to effect. I see no scenario wherein this limiting God. Time is order without end. At the very least sequence without end. The measure of time is different. It is relative to experience.

I hope this helps you understand my position. I appreciate your input.
 
Back
Top Bottom