I read your post and showed the verse you quoted had nothing at all to do with the creation of time.
I also noted no bible verse exists stating time was created.
I also responding to your extraneous comment about sleeping.
Omniscience????
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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I also noted no bible verse exists stating time was created.
I also responding to your extraneous comment about sleeping.
Still no causation in fatalism mentioned in your source or anywhere else for that matter. Determinism has causation hence its called determinism and not fatalism. LOL
EDUCATE YOURSELF
Notice how Presby02 tries to claim God predetermining has no causality when all along he has been claiming God is the ultimate cause of all things
It does have causality genius, GOD. Determinism has causality. Fatalism does not. The problem is your attempt to conflate the two which is simply desperation.
Laughable
fatalism has causality
fatalism
noun
fa·tal·ism ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm: a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them
Its causes that fix events so that only one outcome may result
Tell me what it is. Still listening. Fixed by what sir? What fixes it?
Causes
Hello
Theistic if you are a believer who believes in determination
Determinism is a philosophical theory that all events, including moral choices, are completely determined by previously existing causes12. It is usually understood to preclude free will because it entails that humans cannot act otherwise than they do1
BTW this
cannot act otherwise than they do
is Fatalism
What's the cause? Not mention in your source and you apparently have no clue
Determinism and fatalism are not synonymous terms. Fatalism has no causation and is impersonal.
Are you not able to read?
Causes
Hello
Theistic if you are a believer who believes in determination
Theistic = God
Determinism is a philosophical theory that all events, including moral choices, are completely determined by previously existing causes12. It is usually understood to preclude free will because it entails that humans cannot act otherwise than they do1
BTW this
cannot act otherwise than they do
is Fatalism
are you ever going to address the question
Are you going to claim God's determinations lack causality?
Are you going to deny you have claimed God is the ultimate cause off all things
Notice once again readers he does not answer
The fact you did not answer shows you lost again and are dodging
Causes have causes. What is the initial cause in fatalism?
Question begging. You assume determinism and fatalism are synonymous. There not. Determinism is personal and has causation, God.
Fatalism has no causation and is impersonal.
God is the cause of all things. No creation, no Tom and his silliness.
Sorry you claim fatalism has no cause is false
Why do you keep on making up your definition
fa·tal·ism
[ˈfādlˌizəm]
noun
the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable:
Fatalism
First published Wed Dec 18, 2002; substantive revision Thu Feb 23, 2023Though the word “fatalism” is commonly used to refer to an attitude of resignation in the face of some future event or events which are thought to be inevitable, philosophers usually use the word to refer to the view that we are powerless to do anything other than what we actually do. This view may be argued for in various ways: by appeal to logical laws and metaphysical necessities; by appeal to the existence and nature of God; by appeal to causal determinism. When argued for in the first way, it is commonly called “Logical fatalism” (or, in some cases, “Metaphysical fatalism”); when argued for in the second way, it is commonly called “Theological fatalism”.
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Sorry, no such thing as "theistic fatalism". Fatalism has no causation and is impersonal.
Are you fated to die or is it causally determined by God?? DODGE TIME
No doubt men have infected the Scriptures with their own judgments, even as Eve infected God's Word with her own judgments. I think it is good that you accept this and are careful when you study. As you once implied, "In other words, consider the other words". (I love this) And I agree with you, this is a great study, and an important one in my view. It seems clear according to Scriptures that for every mortal human, "time" will run out. That God is long suffering, and wishes for men to turn to Him and turn away from their transgressions, while there is still "time". After the human dies, he can "do" nothing, can know nothing, can serve nothing. There is even a "Feast of the Lord" called, "The Last Great Day".
I think Yeshua speaks to this when HE talks about what "many" Christians, who like Eve were "hearers of His Words only, and not doers, will say to Him on this "Last Great Day" when God resurrects them, and they see the Judgment God placed on them according to their "works" in Matt. 7. He having seen the end of their "time" from their beginning of their "time" blessed us by giving a glimpse of the "end time" for these "many"..
What is fascinating to me, is while religious men, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, scoff at the idea of "Time" ending, they miss the entire foundation of the serpent's deception to Eve. God told Eve, as HE told us, that if she lived in transgression, and set about to Do that which HE forbad her to do, (Work iniquity) or "be a hearer of His Sayings only and not a "doer" of His Sayings, that she would surely die. Her "time" would end, or as Yeshua said, "her house would fall". The serpent convinced Eve that God was lying to her. That she was already immortal, and that her time would never end regardless of her "works". (Thou shall surely not die)
She had the choice given to every man, listen to God, or listen to the "another voice".
This is why, in my view, it is so important to "beware" and "Take heed" of this world's religious voices, who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him". As it seems you are engaged to do.
Will God choose to forget? Perhaps HE can and will. But will God choose to lie? I will never believe that HE does, I don't care what the "other voice" in the garden God placed me in, who profess to know God, implies or teaches.
"Omniscience"
Great subject.
civic
Well-known member
If you would have actually read my post, you would know that I referenced the Revelation verse had to do with the "End of Time", or as other translations said, "No more delay".
You are free to disagree with my post and the speculation I posted, "What If "Time itself" is a creation of God".
Can "Time" exist without the heavens and the earth? Who created the "Day"? Did the "Day" exist before God created the Sun? Could "morning" or "evening" exist before God created the heavens and the earth? Can "Time" exist without the "DAY"?
These are perfectly relevant questions.
I believe there are several scriptures which do suggest that "Time" as we know it, "IS" a creation of God. You are free to disagree or discard the Scriptures referenced.
You said I was trying to promote that God was sleeping before HE created our world. This shows how your heart works, not mine.
It is an absolute scientific Fact that human's consciousness of time when they sleep, is not the same as when they are awake. I know this to be true from personal experience. I had surgery once and was placed in unconsciousness. It was a 3-hour procedure. When I awoke, I asked my wife when the surgery was going to begin, because I had no consciousness of the time that had passed. I have also seen this in my own dream state, as I'm sure everyone else, even you if you were honest, would attest to.
I would show you the studies, as they are many and easy to find for anyone seeking to find them. But why would I do so, given your obvious lack of interest?
I can prove, through Scriptures, that the "DAY" was created. And the "Week" was created. Without which neither the month or the year could exist.
You can't prove that this creation of God isn't "Time".
civic
Well-known member
give it your best shot and I will prove your view of time is false regarding creation because of your human philosophy
Your perpetual self-exaltation notwithstanding, God did create the Sun and the Moon, even in your religion, Yes? I am simply posing the question, "Can morning and evening exist without the Sun that God created?" And can the "DAY", which only existed "AFTER" God created the heavens and the earth, (which includes the Sun) exist without a morning and an evening? Which leads to the question, can "TIME" as we humans, and animals and plants and "ALL" life knows it, exist without God's creation of the heavens and His creation of the earth? And if not, then would it not be true that "Time", as we know it, is also a creation of God.
In Joshua 10: God stopped the Sun. What happened to the passing of "Time" when God stopped the Sun? Did "Time itself" not also stand still?
Rev. 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
23 And the city had "no need of the sun", "neither of the moon", to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
So in the New Heavens and the NEW Earth, there is only the Day. No "1st day", no "2nd day", no morning and evening. And therefore, no more weeks, no more months and no more years, as defined by the heavens and earth God created which exist today.
Maybe in your religion, your god isn't capable of creating time. But it seems the God, "of the Holy Scriptures", had the power to do so.
At any rate, I thought it worthy of the question "What if time itself is a creation of God"?
It's a great study.
civic
Well-known member
how is time calculated ?
You should, as a courtesy that you have admonished others for refusing, answer my questions first. In this heaven and in this earth, that the God "of the Bible" created, "Can the expanse of time called the "DAY", exist without the Sun that God created"? Yes, or no!
Upon receiving your answer, I can then work to answer your question, which I am glad to do.
