Omniscience????

Perhaps you should read the exchange again.

Perhaps you should read the exchange again. You should stop making comments that equally apply to us both. It will really help.


This doesn't make any sense. "To end of an endless duration". Your mortal "time" ends. My mortal "Time" ends. The Sun and the moon's Time ends. The heavens and the earth we walk on and under, will come to an end. But not God. Therefore, I replied;.

I'm not going to end. Who told you that? Why are you saying I am. I am Eternal through Jesus Christ our Lord. I only have life in Him. As long as He lives, I will live.

BTW... it makes more sense than you're appeal to some "spinning globe"......

I've said repeatedly now that it is a paradox. Beginning and end represent a whole. There is not a "literal beginning". The WORDS represent a whole. You've used them interchangeably in our conversation yourself. I find it petty that you're chosen to attack me in the same things you do yourself.

If you had, I would have not asked to see them.

You're not the arbitrator of realty itself. You can say anything you want... it doesn't make it true. I hate that I have to actually say that. Are we are going to start the "yeah I did"... "no I didn't" endless conversation? Others can judge.

Again, I never made such a claim. It's hard to correct something I never did. Perhaps you should read this exchange again as well.

Everyone can read it for themselves.

You're quotes tags are bad.... I'll respond when you correct them. No problem.
 
You think time is an invention of man?

Ok, I am done here.

God bless you.
I believe God created time as we know it today from the sun, moon and stars. But I also believe there was the existence of time before day for of the creation of the sun, moon and stars since there were already 3 prior days of creation.
 
For the record Presentism has been the majority view in Christendom
From a certain perspective yes. However, what is past is required. What is planned is required. History repeats itself. It is part of the thought that is nothing new under the sun yet that statement is not entirely true. It is simply casually true.

Relative to "new" there many "new things" under the sun that have never been before.
 
I read C.S Lewis in your comments. I know C.S Lewis. You're repeating what he said. Not what God has revealed. There is not such thing as the "Eternal now".

I told you, I have never studied this man. nor have I adopted religions that do. I posted God's Words, and my understanding of them not mans. Please stop being dishonest about the content of my posts.

There is past, present (NOW) and future with God. This all combines to form an endless Eternity.

Yes, no beginning and no end. "How old is God?" This cannot be measured as HE exists in a realm where ""Time" as we know it, cannot exist. I have a yesterday, divided from today by darkness. I hope for a tomorrow, divided from today by darkness. I cannot exist "Yesterday", nor can I exist "tomorrow". I can only exist NOW. His Realm has no darkness to divide the days. There is no "Yesterday" with God. There is no tomorrow with God. Only Day, forever.

What about "worlds without end"?

We don't live in a world without end now, in my understanding. But God does, Yes? Our world will come to an end, at least according to Scriptures. But the Kingdom of God, the world where Israel will be, is a world without end. A new Heavens and a New Earth for us, not God, where there is no darkness, and therefore no division of the darkness from the light, which is where the "Days", seasons, months and years come from. There will only be DAY, forever. This is where the Throne of God exists now as it also existed in Moses "Time" and Noah's "Time", and where the faithful will reside at the end of "Their Time", as Isaiah declares.

Is. 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

I believe, according to Study, that God exists in this world without end right now, and in my yesterday HE is there too, and in my tomorrow, HE is there as well. Before HE created my world and my reality, God still existed in a world without beginning and without end.

Have you ever studied that statement in Scripture? I have. Please answer if you've ever studied this before personally. Don't go "study it now" and pretend you have.

I have studied a great deal, including this topic and the Scriptures you referenced. But who am I, just a man, Yes? I am learning and growing in the knowledge of God every week, from Sabbath to Sabbath. God doesn't change, but my understanding of Him grows and has grown for over 30 years. I understand differently today, than 15 or 30 years ago when my journey began. Am I perfect? No, but I press toward the Prize of that very high calling. Do I know everything, like you? No, but I open my heart to Him to grow in the knowledge of Him as HE reveals to me through the Scriptures His Truths, understanding that God drives out the darkness in my heart, little by little.

Deut. 7: 20 Moreover the LORD thy God will send the hornet among them, until they that are left, and hide themselves from thee, be destroyed. 21 Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible. 22 And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee.

23 But the LORD thy God shall deliver (Reveal) them unto thee, and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction, until they be destroyed. Jesus speaks to this darkness in John 3: 19-21.


My understanding of "Time" is gained through study of Scriptures. I have posted them for review and discussion and as anyone can see this topic is important to me, and I have spent a great deal of "Time" in study and prayer concerning it. Could I be mistaken? Of course. But only a fool would take the word of some random preacher, over what the Scriptures I have posted actually say.

Just want to make sure that I'm actually dealing with an opposing mature position on this topic. Most people don't have enough knowledge to even form an opinion. They just repeat others.

I agree that this is true concerning most religious people, however, there is even more troubling practices which exists among "many" who "Profess to know God". And that is to purposely misrepresent someone in order to exalt themselves over them, in a biblical discussion. Like when a man posts a God inspired Word from Jeremiah, and the opposition accuses them of claiming to be Jeremiah. "I mean do you really believe you are a "Jeremiah"? Or when a person promotes the belief that God exists in Jeremiah's past, present and future, the opposer mocks by saying God is "globe spinning to know Jeremiah".

I too, "Just want to make sure that I'm actually dealing with an opposing mature position on this topic".

Men who engage in this practice are not serious about God, in my experience.
 
God doesn't know my sin. I don't how many times I've said this now. God doesn't know my sin. Does God still know your sin?

My God forgives and forgets.....

I ask you not mix your response to this particular response of mine with any other comments. Please deal specifically with this comment.

I KNOW God forgives and FORGETS..... because He said He did.

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

I actually believe what I just posted..... I believe what God said in these verses. To believe this I must believe and accept that God doesn't know everything.....

Tell me why you don't agree. God is willingly forgetful.

I like how I've heard others put it. My sins are GONE...........

1 John 1: 7 But "if we walk" in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 "If we say" that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 "If we confess" our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
There is east and west but in the context of the expression they never meet. Does this sound familiar? Beginning and End.... never meeting?

A straight line perhaps?

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
 
From a certain perspective yes. However, what is past is required. What is planned is required. History repeats itself. It is part of the thought that is nothing new under the sun yet that statement is not entirely true. It is simply casually true.

Relative to "new" there many "new things" under the sun that have never been before.
Presentism simply means all that currently exists of time is the present.
 
Brother, C.S. Lewis is the man that began the doctrine you referenced. The "Now" of God. Some have tried to say they "originated" the "Eternal Now" new age philosophy. They didn't.

We all have baggage. You've heard this before. It is so engrained in society that is all around us. Doesn't matter if you've actually studied CS Lewis or not. Those are his words.

Your preaching notwithstanding, it is an absolute fact that you have no power to go back even ten minutes ago, and "DO" something. It is also an undeniable Truth that you cannot go into the future and "DO" something. The only "time" God has given you any power at all, to "DO" anything, is right now. To deny these undeniable Truths is foolishness to the point of stupidity.

Have others also come to the same conclusion? I would certainly hope so. Is this "New Age" philosophy? Perhaps to you, but certainly not the Prophets.

"Today, if you hear His voice, harden not your hearts". You can't go back to last week and "hear" His voice. And you can't go into next week and hear his Voice. NOW is the only time a man can "Hear" God's Voice and "Harden not their hearts."

This is not baggage, ingrained into society. This is why, in my view, the Jesus "of the bible" said;

Matt. 6: 33 But seek ye first (NOW) the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought "for the morrow": for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient "unto the day" (NOW) is the evil thereof.

These are not the Words of CS Lewis, although if he believed in these Words, good for him.
 
Here's a thought for you/

He is omniscient and aware of every little detail including our thoughts. Let's discuss this in detail, as it should be interesting.

In Psalm 139:1-2, David tells us: “O LORD, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar.”
Seems God learned by searching David's heart

Classic theism hold God's knowledge is

Innate
Ungenerate

Non discursive
Eternal
Unfalsifiable

Seems that verse would violate 3 aspects of classic theism regarding God's knowledge
 
Quite easily

The future has not yet happened

And the past is gone

The past isn't gone entirely. It can NOT be changed even relative to immutable. (even though the results can be amended and even forgotten). The future is certain relative to the absolute purpose of God. (not saying that everything future is conditional) It is not.

There is no such thing as ONLY the "present" exists.

This is why I told you that Open Theism is not perfect in how it approaches the issue. Every open theist that I know of..... tend to discount the certainty of God's planning yet future.

All of this is going somewhere brother. Some of those destinations are as certain as God's character is immutable.
 
The past isn't gone entirely. It can NOT be changed even relative to immutable. (even though the results can be amended and even forgotten). The future is certain relative to the absolute purpose of God. (not saying that everything future is conditional) It is not.

There is no such thing as ONLY the "present" exists.

This is why I told you that Open Theism is not perfect in how it approaches the issue. Every open theist that I know of..... tend to discount the certainty of God's planning yet future.

All of this is going somewhere brother. Some of those destinations are as certain as God's character is immutable.
I am afraid I have to disagree. The past is gone. The future is not yet

We have only the present.

Ps Open theist I know affirms God can know and bring about what he determines
 
Your preaching notwithstanding, it is an absolute fact that you have no power to go back even ten minutes ago, and "DO" something. It is also an undeniable Truth that you cannot go into the future and "DO" something.

The boundaries of God within our mutable existence are themselves relative to the Character of God. You're missing the fact that "order" an indelible time are necessary relative to Divinity. This fact is at the core of "I AM that I AM".

I've said much to you and I'm giving you some time to consider what I've said. You may need to "chew" on it a while...... I know I have.

What God has irrevocably purposed, is as good as done in the future. Thusly, there really is no meaningful distinctions/differences. There are things God will never change His mind about. In this we agree and this is where I tend to differ from the open theist position.

We are all "right" at some level in this conversation. I'm might just be a little higher percentage than some.

The only "time" God has given you any power at all, to "DO" anything, is right now. To deny these undeniable Truths is foolishness to the point of stupidity.

My choices now and future (my own planning within the boundaries of God's natural and supernatural laws) will change many things for me. My plans may be as sure as complete till they're not. :)

This is more complicated than to just "boil them down" to the absolutes you're establishing in your thoughts.

God takes pleasure in my plans or He does not. He allows me to plan just like He does.

It is part of our experience in being in the likeness of God..... (The God experience).

There will come a day when God WILL change us. This change will NOT be against our wills.......

WE GROAN within ourselves seeking such.... This "travail" will be gone and we shall stand complete where our purpose/plans agree with God's purpose/plans. Such is what God seeks. A place beyond mere "compliance". God seeks agreement from us in all things.
 
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I am afraid I have to disagree. The past is gone. The future is not yet

We have only the present.

Let know when you want to discuss how we disagree..... We can get into the details.


Ps Open theist I know affirms God can know and bring about what he determines

I know this. However, for the most part, they treat them as only possibilities. Relative to where God's character is concern, they never change. They are basically "flat" throughout endless time. You might could call this the immutable "thread of time".
 
Let know when you want to discuss how we disagree..... We can get into the details.
Whenever you like
I know this. However, for the most part, they treat them as only possibilities. Relative to where God's character is concern, they never change. They are basically "flat" throughout endless time. You might could call this the immutable "thread of time".
Well of course the future has not yet happened, so what we have are possibilities
 
Whenever you like

Well of course the future has not yet happened, so what we have are possibilities

So... you would claim that God's purpose in the Resurrection is only a possibility?

Brother the desire to combat what we consider to be "false teachings" often causes us to make bad choices. That first "inclination" we have to be different often causes us to say rather silly things at times.

I would never claim that the Resurrection is solely a possibility.
 
Does God exhaustively know every single "bit" of information past present and future of all existence?
I vote no also because 'exhaustive knowledge' means HE knew who would end in hell before HE created them but created them anyway and that idea is anathema to me...

I believe that HE knew all of HIS creations, Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his [creative] works from the beginning of the world., but since HE did not create the results of our true free will decisions, HE did not know them until we chose them for ourselves.
 
So... you would claim that God's purpose in the Resurrection is only a possibility?

Brother the desire to combat what we consider to be "false teachings" often causes us to make bad choices. That first "inclination" we have to be different often causes us to say rather silly things at times.

I would never claim that the Resurrection is solely a possibility.
No I would not.

As noted elsewhere God can/did determine certain things.
 
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