Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
- Thread starter Red Baker
- Start date
Truther
Well-known member
This is for you @dwight92070
Doug Brents
Well-known member
That verse does not impact this point in any way. It is entirely possible (in fact, necessary) to be a follower of Jesus before you are saved. You may only be His follower for a few minutes (as in the case of the Philippian Jailer), but you are His follower before you are saved by Him. And you must remain His follower for the rest of your life.
I see full verses and water baptism is not mentioned
Acts 3:19–20 (ESV) — 19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, 20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,
repentance brings remission of sin and life
Acts 11:18 (ESV) — 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
Water baptism is a sign of the cleanliness accomplished by repentance
Luke 24:47 (ESV) — 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Acts 10:43 (ESV) — 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Acts 5:31 (ESV) — 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (ESV) — 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
I can accept Acts 2:38 as a true statement without falsifying it
You however must deny many verses to affirm your cannot be saved without water baptism theology
examples
When did these pass from death to life
John 5:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
these
Acts 11:15–18 (NASB 2020) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore, if God gave them the same gift as He also gave to us after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”
What did John say would bring life?
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
BTW examine the verses - Acts appears there four times in a manner contrary to your views
So who really is the Acts skipper here
Maybe you should learn Acts 2:38 is not the only verse in the bible. And learn to consider audience
Truther
Well-known member
You forgot Gen 1:1 which does not mention water baptism.
Truther
Well-known member
Should I skip Acts 2:38 and teach others to do the same, telling folks it is for Jewish sinners only(unto today), as you guys do?
Should I teach Jews today to obey Acts 2:38 and teach gentiles to ignore it?
Why not?, you do.
You do not need to skip anything as it does not say if you arev not baptizxed you cannot be saved
That is your addition to the text while you ignore the following
I see full verses and water baptism is not mentioned
Acts 3:19–20 (ESV) — 19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, 20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,
repentance brings remission of sin and life
Acts 11:18 (ESV) — 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
Water baptism is a sign of the cleanliness accomplished by repentance
Luke 24:47 (ESV) — 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Acts 10:43 (ESV) — 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Acts 5:31 (ESV) — 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (ESV) — 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
I can accept Acts 2:38 as a true statement without falsifying it
You however must deny many verses to affirm your cannot be saved without water baptism theology
examples
When did these pass from death to life
John 5:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
these
Acts 11:15–18 (NASB 2020) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore, if God gave them the same gift as He also gave to us after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”
What did John say would bring life?
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
BTW examine the verses - Acts appears there four times in a manner contrary to your views
So who really is the Acts skipper here
Maybe you should learn Acts 2:38 is not the only verse in the bible. And learn to consider audience
It does not mention salvation or forgiveness of sin either
these do
but you will not address them
Truther
Well-known member
It says repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. That sounds kind of like that it has something to do with salvation. Better stick to the script.
Truther
Well-known member
I think that one went right over your head. You were posting random verses and skipping baptism in the name of Jesus Christ verses. That’s why I posted Genesis 1:1. It is off the wall to post around verses and not attempt to harmonize them all.
Sorry there are far more verse which do not mention water baptism for salvation
and there are no verses which state if you do not believe, you cannot be saved
examine one for example
John 5:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
what does it say happened for one to pass from death to life?
Do you see any mention of water baptism there?
Ps those so called by you random verses all show salvation, forgiveness of sin upon faith
You just don't want to deal with therm orb your denial of what they state
Not anywhere here
Acts 3:19–20 (ESV) — 19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, 20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,
repentance brings remission of sin and life
Acts 11:18 (ESV) — 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
Water baptism is a sign of the cleanliness accomplished by repentance
Luke 24:47 (ESV) — 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Acts 10:43 (ESV) — 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Acts 5:31 (ESV) — 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (ESV) — 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
I can accept Acts 2:38 as a true statement without falsifying it
You however must deny many verses to affirm your cannot be saved without water baptism theology
examples
When did these pass from death to life
John 5:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
these
Acts 11:15–18 (NASB 2020) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore, if God gave them the same gift as He also gave to us after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”
What did John say would bring life?
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
BTW examine the verses - Acts appears there four times in a manner contrary to your views
So who really is the Acts skipper here
Maybe you should learn Acts 2:38 is not the only verse in the bible. And learn to consider audience
And it does not state what you preach. Unless you are baptised you are not saved
That is a negative inference fallacy
Truther
Well-known member
Four times in the book of Acts, they were either rebaptized or baptized in the name of the Lord. Your solution is to create 2 covenants in the New Testament church one for Jews, one for Gentiles. You’re very confused.
Truther
Well-known member
It’s funny how you can debunk Acts 2 with Acts 3. You still don’t get what I’m saying? You don’t know how to harmonize. You pit verse against verse . You’re on the wrong side of history.
And we saw that men were given life and received the Spirit apart from water baptism
and it is reception of the spirit that saves
Sorry acts 2 never states you cannot be saved without water baptism
you read that into the text
Not anywhere here
Acts 3:19–20 (ESV) — 19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, 20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,
repentance brings remission of sin and life
Acts 11:18 (ESV) — 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
Water baptism is a sign of the cleanliness accomplished by repentance
Luke 24:47 (ESV) — 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Acts 10:43 (ESV) — 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Acts 5:31 (ESV) — 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (ESV) — 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
I can accept Acts 2:38 as a true statement without falsifying it
You however must deny many verses to affirm your cannot be saved without water baptism theology
note below
examples
When did these pass from death to life
John 5:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
you never address
these
Acts 11:15–18 (NASB 2020) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore, if God gave them the same gift as He also gave to us after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”
What did John say would bring life?
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
again you provide no answer
BTW examine the verses - Acts appears there four times in a manner contrary to your views
So who really is the Acts skipper here
Maybe you should learn Acts 2:38 is not the only verse in the bible. And learn to consider audience
And it does not state what you preach. Unless you are baptised you are not saved
That is a negative inference fallacy
you don't deal with that either
you did not answer the question when do you pass from death to life
John 5:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
It is not just any reception of the Spirit that saves. It is when He cuts our sins from us, and unites us with Jesus' resurrection that saves. And that happens during baptism. Just receiving miraculous works by Him is not an indication that one is saved.
