Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[Truther]

Wrong

It has everything to do with salvation

Ephesians 1:13–14 (UASV) — 13 In whom also, you having heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also having trusted, were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is a down payment of our inheritance for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

as it marks one in Christ and seals them as having received a down payment

Do you teach the book of Ephesians was written to sinners.... or saints that had already obeyed Acts 2:38?

One hint...


1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:....

 

[Truther]

'Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized
every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive
the gift of the Holy Ghost.'
(Act 2:38)

Hello @Truther,

Who were these words spoken to? It matters.

' Ye men of Israel,
hear these words; ... '
(Act 2:22)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Sinners.

 

[Truther]

You have a major problems

First you have to believe before you can receive the spirit

When you believe you are sealed in Christ

Ephesians 1:13–14 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

which is the earnest of our inheritance

Its absurd you imagine this could apply to one who was not forgiven of his sin

Just as it is absurd to imagine the Holy Spirit indwells one still in sin

finally

Mark 1:8 (ESV) — 8 I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Man baptizes with water but Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit

This is the greater baptism by the greater one.

With a greater than water

Water baptism is specifically for this.....


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...


And this is not for remission of sins...... and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Lest you believe this....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the OPTIONAL JEWISH SINNERS' remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost INSTEAD, FOR THE REMISSION OF GENTILE SINS.

 

[TomL]

These are Jews?...

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...

You appear confused

The issue was Peters command to the Jews to repent and be baptised for the remission of sin

That is not what was stated of the Gentiles

Who already had the repentance which issues in Life


Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

thus were already forgiven of their sins

and had already received the spirit

 

[TomL]

Water baptism is specifically for this.....


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...


And this is not for remission of sins...... and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Lest you believe this....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the OPTIONAL JEWISH SINNERS' remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost INSTEAD, FOR THE REMISSION OF GENTILE SINS.

Again I am not a Jew who had rejected and crucified Christ

and you ignored this

You have a major problems

First you have to believe before you can receive the spirit

When you believe you are sealed in Christ

Ephesians 1:13–14 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

which is the earnest of our inheritance

Its absurd you imagine this could apply to one who was not forgiven of his sin

Just as it is absurd to imagine the Holy Spirit indwells one still in sin

finally

Mark 1:8 (ESV) — 8 I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Man baptizes with water but Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit

This is the greater baptism by the greater one.

With a greater than water

 

[TomL]

Do you teach the book of Ephesians was written to sinners.... or saints that had already obeyed Acts 2:38?

One hint...


1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:....

Did you read the verse?

It has everything to do with salvation

Ephesians 1:13–14 (UASV) — 13 In whom also, you having heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also having trusted, were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is a down payment of our inheritance for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

as it marks one in Christ and seals them as having received a down payment

Do you deny it is speaking of when they first came to trust in Christ?

 

[Truther]

You appear confused

The issue was Peters command to the Jews to repent and be baptised for the remission of sin

That is not what was stated of the Gentiles

Who already had the repentance which issues in Life


Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

thus were already forgiven of their sins

and had already received the spirit

Are there 2 types of sinners in your theology?

 

[Truther]

Again I am not a Jew who had rejected and crucified Christ

and you ignored this

You have a major problems

First you have to believe before you can receive the spirit

When you believe you are sealed in Christ

Ephesians 1:13–14 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

which is the earnest of our inheritance

Its absurd you imagine this could apply to one who was not forgiven of his sin

Just as it is absurd to imagine the Holy Spirit indwells one still in sin

finally

Mark 1:8 (ESV) — 8 I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Man baptizes with water but Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit

This is the greater baptism by the greater one.

With a greater than water

I see. Peter commanded to gentiles of old to be baptized in the name of Jesus per Acts 10, but you are a better sinner than they were, needing no baptism for the remission of sins.

 

[Truther]

Did you read the verse?

It has everything to do with salvation

Ephesians 1:13–14 (UASV) — 13 In whom also, you having heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also having trusted, were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is a down payment of our inheritance for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

as it marks one in Christ and seals them as having received a down payment

Do you deny it is speaking of when they first came to trust in Christ?

Eph 1 debunks Acts 2:38, 8, 10 and 19?

Is that what they teach folks today?

 

[TomL]

Are there 2 types of sinners in your theology?

Do you deny the facts?

The gentiles had life thus were saved before water baptism

That in itself show water baptism is not necessary for salvation

And we have not even begun to address the greater baptism of the greater one

By being baptized in Spirit, Cornelius and his friends received the forgiveness and salvation that Peter promised them (Acts 10:43–45; 11:13–18). “Baptized in Spirit” is there synonymous with “granted repentance unto life” (11:18) and “cleansed their hearts by faith” (15:8, 9).1

1 James D. G. Dunn, “Baptism of the Spirit,” Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1988) 262.

 

[Truther]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...


12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)...


48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...


5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus....



Debunked by Eph 1?

 

[TomL]

Eph 1 debunks Acts 2:38, 8, 10 and 19?

Is that what they teach folks today?

You teach Acts 2:38 debunks

SALVATION THROUGH FAITH

John 3:16, 18, 36; 5:24, 46; 6:29, 35, 40, 47; 1:7,12, Mark 1:15, Luke 8:12

John 6:68-69; 7:31, 38; 8:24; 9:38-39; 10:26; 11:26; 12:36, 46; 16:27,

John 17:8, 20; 20:29, 31; Acts 2:41-44; 4:4, 24, 32; 5:14; 6:7; 8:12-13, 37,

Acts 9:42; 10:43; 11:17, 21; 13:39, 48; 14:27; 15:5, 7, 9, 11; 16:1, 5,

Acts 16:31; 17:4-5; 19:2, 4, 9, 18, 21:20, 25; 22:19; 24:24; Romans 1:8,

Romans 1:16-17, 3:3, 22,25,27,28,30, 4:5, 9,11-12, 16, 24, 5:1, 9:30, 10:4,

Romans 10:6, 9-10, 14, 17; 11:20; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 3:5; 14:22; 15:2, 11, 17, 2 Corinthians 1:24; 4:4; 13:5; Galatians 2:16, 20; 3:2, 5, 5:5; 6:10; Ephesians 1:12-13, 19, Ephesians 2:8-9, Philippians 3:9, Colossians 1:4, 1Thessalonians 1:7; 2:10, 13; 3:5; 4:14; 2 Thessalonians 1:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1Timothy 1:16 ; 4:10, 12; 2Timothy 1:12; Titus 3:5; Hebrews 2:13; 4:3 Hebrews 10:10-14, 23, 39; 11:6; 1 Peter 1:9; 1John 3:23; 5:1, 4.

 

[Truther]

Do you deny the facts?

The gentiles had life thus were saved before water baptism

That in itself show water baptism is not necessary for salvation

And we have not even begun to address the greater baptism of the greater one

By being baptized in Spirit, Cornelius and his friends received the forgiveness and salvation that Peter promised them (Acts 10:43–45; 11:13–18). “Baptized in Spirit” is there synonymous with “granted repentance unto life” (11:18) and “cleansed their hearts by faith” (15:8, 9).1

1 James D. G. Dunn, “Baptism of the Spirit,” Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1988) 262.

Oh, you and your source teach this....


3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized BY THE HOLY GHOST into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by HOLY GHOST baptism into death...


Wow, the Holy Ghost kills!

 

[Truther]

Fact is, unless you are baptized per Acts 2:38, this does not apply to you....



3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


You are not buried yet.

Your sins remain.

 

[TomL]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...


12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)...


48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...


5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus....



Debunked by Eph 1?

Again you conflate the issue of whether we should be waster baptized with the issue of water baptism necessity for forgiveness and remission of sin

From the evidence of the bible we know one who had trusted in christ has received remission of sin, was sealed and indwelt by the Spirit and been granted life

 

[TomL]

Oh, you and your source teach this....


3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized BY THE HOLY GHOST into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by HOLY GHOST baptism into death...


Wow, the Holy Ghost kills!

It just means we are united with him in his death and have died to sin

Romans 6:1–11 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

context matters

 

[Truther]

Again you conflate the issue of whether we should be waster baptized with the issue of water baptism necessity for forgiveness and remission of sin

From the evidence of the bible we know one who had trusted in christ has received remission of sin, was sealed and indwelt by the Spirit and been granted life

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

 

[Truther]

It just means we are united with him in his death and have died to sin

Romans 6:1–11 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

context matters

The Holy Ghost put you to death or water baptism?

 

[TomL]

The Holy Ghost put you to death or water baptism?

Do you really imagine water has the power to set you free from sin?

No it is the holy Spirit.

 

[TomL]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

And again I am not a Jew who rejected Christ's baptism and crucified him

John 3:16 (ESV) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18 (ESV) — 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 3:36 (ESV) — 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

John 6:40 (ESV) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (ESV) — 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 10:43 (ESV) — 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Ephesians 2:8 (ESV) — 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

There is not a drop of water in these verses