Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[Complete]

'Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized
every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive
the gift of the Holy Ghost.'
(Act 2:38)

Hello @Truther,

Who were these words spoken to? It matters.

' Ye men of Israel,
hear these words; ... '
(Act 2:22)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes men who had crucified Christ

Acts 2:36–38 (KJV 1900) — 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sinners.

------------------------------------------------------------
'I say then, (concerning Israel)
Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid:
but rather through their fall
salvation is come unto the Gentiles,
for to provoke them to jealousy.
Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world,
and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles;
how much more their fulness?
For I speak to you Gentiles,
inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles,
I magnify mine office:
If by any means I may provoke to emulation
them which are my flesh,
and might save some of them.
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world,
what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?'
(Rom 11:11-15)

Hello @Truther,(+@TomL)

With respect, though all Scripture is 'FOR' us, not all is 'ABOUT' us. In Acts 2:38 that you quoted, Truther, the words spoken by Peter were addressed to 'men of Israel', who were at the feast of Pentecost. It was not spoken to Gentiles because there would have been no Gentiles there: and Gentiles were not given entry into the Kingdom until at least ten years later, with the conversion of Cornelius; and then with the purpose of making Israel jealous So Acts 2:38 cannot be used as a proof text in a discussion concerning baptism, and whether baptism is a requirement for salvation.

Throughout the Acts period the door was open for Israel, as a nation, to come to repentance, that the promise made by God, through Peter in Acts 3:19-20 may be realised: and that Israel may have fulfilled their Divinely intended role as priests unto God, at that time.

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come
from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
Which before was preached unto you:'
(Act 3:19-20)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[TomL]

------------------------------------------------------------
'I say then, (concerning Israel)
Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid:
but rather through their fall
salvation is come unto the Gentiles,
for to provoke them to jealousy.
Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world,
and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles;
how much more their fulness?
For I speak to you Gentiles,
inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles,
I magnify mine office:
If by any means I may provoke to emulation
them which are my flesh,
and might save some of them.
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world,
what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?'
(Rom 11:11-15)

Hello @Truther,(+@TomL)

With respect, though all Scripture is 'FOR' us, not all is 'ABOUT' us. In Acts 2:38 that you quoted, Truther, the words spoken by Peter were addressed to 'men of Israel', who were at the feast of Pentecost. It was not spoken to Gentiles because there would have been no Gentiles there: and Gentiles were not given entry into the Kingdom until at least ten years later, with the conversion of Cornelius; and then with the purpose of making Israel jealous So Acts 2:38 cannot be used as a proof text in a discussion concerning baptism, and whether baptism is a requirement for salvation.

Throughout the Acts period the door was open for Israel, as a nation, to come to repentance, that the promise made by God, through Peter in Acts 3:19-20 may be realised: and that Israel may have fulfilled their Divinely intended role as priests unto God, at that time.

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come
from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
Which before was preached unto you:'
(Act 3:19-20)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Regarding that passage

The Apostle Peter clearly states in Acts 3:19 affirmed as a "parallel passage" to Acts 2:38 - that one’s sins are “wiped out” upon repentance and faith in God. NOTE: Parallel passages are by definition “applicable in all essential parts” (Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary). In other words, parallel passages contain the same “essentials”. So the fact that water baptism is not mentioned in both passages indicates that it not an “essential” to be communicated in Peter’s preaching of the Gospel. Thus, the acknowledgement that Acts 2:38 and Acts 3:19 are parallel passages is to affirm that water baptism is not an essential part of the Gospel message.

 

[mailmandan]

Regarding that passage

The Apostle Peter clearly states in Acts 3:19 affirmed as a "parallel passage" to Acts 2:38 - that one’s sins are “wiped out” upon repentance and faith in God. NOTE: Parallel passages are by definition “applicable in all essential parts” (Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary). In other words, parallel passages contain the same “essentials”. So the fact that water baptism is not mentioned in both passages indicates that it not an “essential” to be communicated in Peter’s preaching of the Gospel. Thus, the acknowledgement that Acts 2:38 and Acts 3:19 are parallel passages is to affirm that water baptism is not an essential part of the Gospel message.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Complete]

'The God of our fathers raised up Jesus,
Whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Him hath God exalted with His right hand
to be a Prince and a Saviour,
for to give repentance to Israel,
and forgiveness of sins.
And we are His witnesses of these things;
and so is also the Holy Ghost,
Whom God hath given to them that obey Him.'
(Act 5:30-32)

'And we are witnesses of all things which He did
both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem;
whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Him God raised up the third day, and shewed Him openly;
Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God,
even to us, who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead.
And He commanded us to preach unto the people,
and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God
to be the Judge of quick and dead.
To Him give all the prophets witness,
that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished,
as many as came with Peter,
because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,
which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?'
(Act 10:3-479)

Thank you @mailmandan.

 

[TomL]

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Yes

Luke never mentions baptism by itself for the forgiveness of sins

Luke 3:3; Acts 2:38; 22:16



but on a number of occasions mentions repentance or faith

Luke 5:20; 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43; 13:38; 26:18; Acts 4:4; 9:35, 42; 11:21; 13:48; 14:1; 16:31; 17:12, 34



over 80 places in the Bible refer to salvation by grace through faith alone. Here are just a very few examples: John 1:12; John 3:16; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:40; John 11:25; Acts 10:43; Acts 13:39; Acts 16:30,31; Romans 3:22; Romans 3:28; Romans 4:3; Romans 4:5; Romans 10:9-13; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:26, and Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[Truther]

Do you really imagine water has the power to set you free from sin?

No it is the holy Spirit.

So, the Holy Ghost crucified you, right?

 

[Truther]

Cool,

And again I am not a Jew who rejected Christ's baptism and crucified him

John 3:16 (ESV) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18 (ESV) — 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 3:36 (ESV) — 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

John 6:40 (ESV) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 (ESV) — 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 10:43 (ESV) — 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Ephesians 2:8 (ESV) — 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

There is not a drop of water in these verses

Cool.
Debunk verses with verses.
That's the ticket.
New religions are built on that.

 

[Truther]

------------------------------------------------------------
'I say then, (concerning Israel)
Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid:
but rather through their fall
salvation is come unto the Gentiles,
for to provoke them to jealousy.
Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world,
and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles;
how much more their fulness?
For I speak to you Gentiles,
inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles,
I magnify mine office:
If by any means I may provoke to emulation
them which are my flesh,
and might save some of them.
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world,
what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?'
(Rom 11:11-15)

Hello @Truther,(+@TomL)

With respect, though all Scripture is 'FOR' us, not all is 'ABOUT' us. In Acts 2:38 that you quoted, Truther, the words spoken by Peter were addressed to 'men of Israel', who were at the feast of Pentecost. It was not spoken to Gentiles because there would have been no Gentiles there: and Gentiles were not given entry into the Kingdom until at least ten years later, with the conversion of Cornelius; and then with the purpose of making Israel jealous So Acts 2:38 cannot be used as a proof text in a discussion concerning baptism, and whether baptism is a requirement for salvation.

Throughout the Acts period the door was open for Israel, as a nation, to come to repentance, that the promise made by God, through Peter in Acts 3:19-20 may be realised: and that Israel may have fulfilled their Divinely intended role as priests unto God, at that time.

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come
from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
Which before was preached unto you:'
(Act 3:19-20)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris, my point is the other poster is saying there are Jewish sinners and gentile sinners.

That's not Bible.

He died for us, so we crucified Jesus too.

If not, he did not die for us, only Jews....


9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


So, Acts 2:38 is for every sinner.

 

[Doug Brents]

You were in error with that claim

I changed nothing

further the very first source i cited

to be vindicated (state) — to be or become shown to be right by providing justification or proof.
Mt 11:19|| καὶ ἐδικαιώθη ἡ σοφία ἀπὸ τῶν ἔργων αὐτῆς.
Ro 3:4 Ὅπως ἂν δικαιωθῇς ἐν τοῖς λόγοις σου
1 Co 4:4 οὐκ ἐν τούτῳ δεδικαίωμαι,
1 Ti 3:16 ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι,
Jas 2:21 Ἀβραὰμ ὁ πατὴρ ἡμῶν οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων ἐδικαιώθη, ἀνενέγκας Ἰσαὰκ
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

specifically mentions James 2:21

showing it is vindication that is in view

Just because the human author of this lexicon believes vindication to be the point of James 2 does not make it so. It does not matter what some human commentator says about a passage. What matters is what Scripture says.

He was counted as righteous when he believed(had faith)

Romans 4:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

it is reference to

Genesis 15:1–6 (ESV) — 1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.” 2 But Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what will you give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 And Abram said, “Behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir.” 4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him: “This man shall not be your heir; your very own son shall be your heir.” 5 And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” 6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

The declaration of righteousness was vindicated when he responded

Abraham was declared righteous by God because of his faith. Abraham was not vindicated BY his faith, he was declared righteous BECAUSE OF his faith, just as we are.

Justification Is Not by Works

Isa. 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.
We all fade like a leaf,
and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Rom. 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

Rom. 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Rom. 9:31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Justification is not BY works, but it does require works to receive it. No, it is not a wage, or a due, or something we deserve. But God has promised that those who do certain things (like the widow with the oil, and Naaman, and the nation of Israel taking the Promised Land) we will receive His gift of forgiveness and salvation. If we do not do those things we will not receive His gift.

Nothing there I would object to.

I would add his faith was genuine when he believed and demonstrated so when he added

His faith was made genuine BY his actions. Without his actions, Abraham would not have been declared righteous.

By now this should be understood to be a strawman

This is not a strawman. You insist that when Abraham (and people today) "believe" (give intellectual assent to) the Gospel, then they are saved, and later they take action on that belief in obedience. That is not Biblical faith.

He was counted as righteous before he had acted and offered up his son

He was counted as righteous before he offered his son, not before he took action in obedience to God.

faith pre-exists its effects

This statement contradicts your statement above that you do not object to my statement that "Faith saves if it is real, alive, and active. If it is not real, not alive, and not active, then it does not, cannot, save." If there is no action, then there is no faith. Faith that does not take action is dead, nonexistent, worthless, and meaningless. And the actions that make faith alive are required to be present BEFORE salvation is received, because faith is the conduit through which salvation is received (baptism).

 

[Doug Brents]

And again I am not a Jew who rejected Christ's baptism and crucified him

If you have committed sin then you crucify Him again, since He was crucified for your sins.

There is not a drop of water in these verses

There does not need to be water in any of these verses, because there is water in so many other verses that link salvation to water baptism. These verses do not prove that baptism is not the point at which we are saved. They simply prove that, in these particular places, water baptism was not mentioned in relation to salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first.

There is no reason to believe this from the Scriptures. The only reason to believe this is because it helps to make the Scriptures agree with your preconception that actions are not necessary to receive salvation.
But actions are necessary, as proven by Rom 10:9-10. Confession of Jesus as Lord, publicly and verbally, leads to (results in) reception of salvation. It does not follow after having received salvation.
Neither does baptism in water follow after salvation is received. If one is not baptized, then one does not die to sin (Rom 6:1-7), nor is our past sin cut from us (Col 2:11-14), nor are we united to Christ in His resurrection (Col 2) or walk in new life (Rom 6). It is in passing through water baptism that we are saved (1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5).

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes

Luke never mentions baptism by itself for the forgiveness of sins

Luke 3:3; Acts 2:38; 22:16



but on a number of occasions mentions repentance or faith

Luke 5:20; 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43; 13:38; 26:18; Acts 4:4; 9:35, 42; 11:21; 13:48; 14:1; 16:31; 17:12, 34



over 80 places in the Bible refer to salvation by grace through faith alone. Here are just a very few examples: John 1:12; John 3:16; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:40; John 11:25; Acts 10:43; Acts 13:39; Acts 16:30,31; Romans 3:22; Romans 3:28; Romans 4:3; Romans 4:5; Romans 10:9-13; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:26, and Ephesians 2:8-9

And so you believe that these passages negate the passages that link baptism with salvation? No, they supplement and give clarity to these passages. The faith that saves is made up of repentance, and confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism. These passages only mention faith, but incorporate these other items in the concept of faith. We do the same thing all the time with many things. When we say "The United States of America", we mean all the states included in the US. We don't have to list all 50 of them every time we mentions it. Nor do we have to write out the whole name. This is exactly what the writers of the NT did in reference to what saves.

 

[Rockson]

Neither does baptism in water follow after salvation is received. If one is not baptized, then one does not die to sin (Rom 6:1-7), nor is our past sin cut from us (Col 2:11-14), nor are we united to Christ in His resurrection (Col 2) or walk in new life (Rom 6). It is in passing through water baptism that we are saved (1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5).

I commend your position that one should be baptized. If one resists the ordinance they ;should be asking did they really take making Jesus their Lord seriously? It's not nor should it ever be to I have to be baptised.....it should rather be you get to not that you have to. You can't however make this an iron clad rule for by doing so you leave yourself in the position of not understanding how Jesus could say to the thief of on the cross that he would be with him in paradise that very day. He NEVER could have been water baptized.

 

[TomL]

And so you believe that these passages negate the passages that link baptism with salvation? No, they supplement and give clarity to these passages. The faith that saves is made up of repentance, and confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism. These passages only mention faith, but incorporate these other items in the concept of faith. We do the same thing all the time with many things. When we say "The United States of America", we mean all the states included in the US. We don't have to list all 50 of them every time we mentions it. Nor do we have to write out the whole name. This is exactly what the writers of the NT did in reference to what saves.

Sorry your methodology causes you to falsify many scriptures which note salvation upon faith and forgiveness upon faith.

Only by denying them can you propagate your theology.

 

[TomL]

If you have committed sin then you crucify Him again, since He was crucified for your sins.

There does not need to be water in any of these verses, because there is water in so many other verses that link salvation to water baptism. These verses do not prove that baptism is not the point at which we are saved. They simply prove that, in these particular places, water baptism was not mentioned in relation to salvation.

Sorry if there is no water in those verses and they posit salvation or forgiveness upon faith then only by denying scripture can you posit your view

Examine

he who believes is saved

he who believes and is baptized is saved

I can affirm both

You on the other hand must deny one to affirm the other

Additionally note there are no verses which say if you are not water baptized you cannot be saved

The idea you are really arguing for is not found in scripture

 

[Doug Brents]

I commend your position that one should be baptized. If one resists the ordinance they ;should be asking did they really take making Jesus their Lord seriously? It's not nor should it ever be to I have to be baptised.....it should rather be you get to not that you have to. You can't however make this an iron clad rule for by doing so you leave yourself in the position of not understanding how Jesus could say to the thief of on the cross that he would be with him in paradise that very day. He NEVER could have been water baptized.

THE THIEF ON THE CROSS WAS PROMISED SALVATION UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. He was never subject to the New Covenant, because Jesus had not yet died and been resurrected before the thief died. While Jesus was alive on Earth, He had the power and authority to forgive sin at His discretion (Matt 9:6). Up until He died, He could declare anyone righteous, but after He died His will (the New Covenant) was made firm and cannot be changed (Heb 9:16-17).

 

[TomL]

And so you believe that these passages negate the passages that link baptism with salvation? No, they supplement and give clarity to these passages. The faith that saves is made up of repentance, and confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism. These passages only mention faith, but incorporate these other items in the concept of faith. We do the same thing all the time with many things. When we say "The United States of America", we mean all the states included in the US. We don't have to list all 50 of them every time we mentions it. Nor do we have to write out the whole name. This is exactly what the writers of the NT did in reference to what saves.

I believe the verses mean what they say

If salvation and or forgiveness is promised upon faith then when faith exists one is forgiven and/or saved regardless of baptismal status

Lets test your fidelity to what you proclaim

There is at least one verse which mentions confession

Will you affirm then he who believes and is baptised was not saved because he did not confess?

 

[Doug Brents]

Sorry your methodology causes you to falsify many scriptures which note salvation upon faith and forgiveness upon faith.

Only by denying them can you propagate your theology.

No, I simply understand that we cannot ignore passages, or reinterpret them, to fit a preconceived notion. We must examine all passages, and let Scripture interpret Scripture.

Sorry if there is no water in those verses and they posit salvation or forgiveness upon faith then only by denying scripture can you posit your view

Examine

he who believes is saved

he who believes and is baptized is saved

I can affirm both

You on the other hand must deny one to affirm the other

Not at all.
Take for instance the plaque on the cross over Jesus' head.
What did it say?
Mark 15:26 says, “And the inscription of His accusation was written above:

THE KING OF THE JEWS.”​

but,
John 19:19 says, “Now Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross. And the writing was:

JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.​

Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.“

Is Mark wrong? Should we throw out Mark because he doesn't tell the whole of what was written on the plaque? NO! He simply didn't say everything that could have been said about the plaque because his audience didn't need those details. The same holds true for the passages that mention only belief. Most of them occur in the Gospels, before it was relevant that one had to be baptized to be saved in the New Covenant. The others are spoken to people who either already knew that baptism was required, or they were told shortly thereafter when the full Gospel was told to them.

I believe the passage mean what they say

If salvation and or forgiveness is promised upon faith then when faith exists one is forgiven and/or saved regardless of baptismal status

Faith does not exist prior to action, because the action is the soul that gives life to faith. So salvation and forgiveness are promised upon the exhibition of faith in repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism.

 

[TomL]

Cool,

Cool.
Debunk verses with verses.
That's the ticket.
New religions are built on that.

Um the only one trying to do that would be your side

I can affirm verses which mention and do not mention baptism for forgiveness for sin or salvation

Your side however must deny many verses to posit your view

No, I simply understand that we cannot ignore passages, or reinterpret them, to fit a preconceived notion. We must examine all passages, and let Scripture interpret Scripture.

Not at all.
Take for instance the plaque on the cross over Jesus' head.
What did it say?
Mark 15:26 says, “And the inscription of His accusation was written above:

THE KING OF THE JEWS.”​

but,
John 19:19 says, “Now Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross. And the writing was:

JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.​

Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.“

Is Mark wrong? Should we throw out Mark because he doesn't tell the whole of what was written on the plaque? NO! He simply didn't say everything that could have been said about the plaque because his audience didn't need those details. The same holds true for the passages that mention only belief. Most of them occur in the Gospels, before it was relevant that one had to be baptized to be saved in the New Covenant. The others are spoken to people who either already knew that baptism was required, or they were told shortly thereafter when the full Gospel was told to them.

Faith does not exist prior to action, because the action is the soul that gives life to faith. So salvation and forgiveness are promised upon the exhibition of faith in repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism.

Sorry totally different context and both are found to be true

You however must deny one verse

If scripture states

John 5:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

you cannot say no because they were not water baptised

 

[Doug Brents]

Um the only one trying to do that would be your side

I can affirm verses which mention and do not mention baptism for forgiveness for sin or salvation

You read them, but you disavow them and discount the connection made between salvation and baptism.

John 5:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

you cannot say no because they were not water baptised

First off, this is long before the death of Christ, so the point of water baptism was immaterial at this point in history. It didn't matter to them yet.
But also, if they really believe then they will be baptized, but if they are not baptized then they really don't believe.