Just because a gentile becomes Born-Again......

[101G]

I agreeeeeeeeeeeeee.


Enoch and Elijah.
It is appointed unto man once to die after this the judgment.
Enoch have not died.
But they will when God sends them to Israel identified in Revelation 11. And when killed that completes the Word of God.
Scripture cannot be broken.
Now, how about a mug of hot cocoa, then?
You buy. LOL.
Kidding. Dutch.

both died. ENOCH. Hebrews 11:4 "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

and now Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

Translated: G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
1. to transfer.
2. (literally) to transport.
3. (by implication) to exchange.
4. (reflexively) to change sides.
5. (figuratively) to pervert.
[from G3326 and G5087]
KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn
Root(s): G3326, G5087

he was just moved from one place on earth so that no one would kill or take his lie. now if either Enoh, or Elijah was taken to the third heaven, then John 3:13 is in ERROR "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." well Enoh and Elijah are men. case closed.


now you said, "Enoch have not died." as said read Hebrews chapter, Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth." All these died... including Enoch., yes the scriptures do not lie.

101G.

 

[jeremiah1five]

both died. ENOCH. Hebrews 11:4 "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

and now Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

Translated: G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
1. to transfer.
2. (literally) to transport.
3. (by implication) to exchange.
4. (reflexively) to change sides.
5. (figuratively) to pervert.
[from G3326 and G5087]
KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn
Root(s): G3326, G5087

he was just moved from one place on earth so that no one would kill or take his lie. now if either Enoh, or Elijah was taken to the third heaven, then John 3:13 is in ERROR "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." well Enoh and Elijah are men. case closed.


now you said, "Enoch have not died." as said read Hebrews chapter, Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth." All these died... including Enoch., yes the scriptures do not lie.

101G.

What do you do when you read two contradictory passages on the same subject? Take the one that suits your preference and belief? We have a tie:

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; Heb 11:5.

13 These all died in faith, Heb 11:13.

Well, there's a break in the list between verse 5 and thirteen.

What do you do, O' Gracious One?

 

[101G]

What do you do when you read two contradictory passages on the same subject? Take the one that suits your preference and belief? We have a tie:

no, you do, the bible is clear. Enoch and Elijah were transported/moved to another place on the planet, (out of harm way). now we have a good clear example of this in the NT. case in point, Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. scripture, Acts 8:36 "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" Acts 8:37 "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:38 "And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him." Acts 8:39 "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing." Acts 8:40 "But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea."

this term Caught away, is the Greek word,
G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo (har-pa'-zō) v.
to seize.
{in various applications}
[from a derivative of G138]
KJV: catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force)
Root(s): G138

see Philip was found at Azotus, and several other cities including Caesarea. so he was not taken to heaven as so many believe this word G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo (har-pa'-zō) meaning a rapture. no he stayed right here on earth.

so, try again.
101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You're a Jew-hater and you reject every beloved of God Chosen Hebrew in the Abrahamic Covenant. You're not a Christian because one cannot claim the love Jesus and hate the people He was born from. You're up there with Nero, Antiochus Epiphanes, and Hitler, and Stalin.

God is going to judge His angels. He is the right person to do so. There is nothing in the Hebrew Scriptures of Gentiles judging God's holy angels. Now, you've shown me another heresy from Saul. The evidence against him keeps mounting up.

You don't submit to anyone. You're to prideful and arrogant. You don't even submit to the Word of God. I do not believe you're Christian in the biblical sense for you reject the Chosen people of God.
Your claim to love Christ is a deceit for a true believer cannot claim to love Jesus and hate the people He was born from.

God made the Hebrew people and those not Hebrew became Gentile. God is very ethnic.

Another error by Saul. Thanks for that. The ONLY HEIRS of the Abrahamic Covenant are Abraham's seed and Gentiles do not come from Abraham.

Saul wrote to Jewish Christians at Rome and Galatia so take his letters in context to who he wrote to and stop adding things in Scripture that are not there.
You must be Mormon or some new fringe false "church."
No true Christian can claim to love Jesus and hate the people He was born from.
Sing it to your false choir (if there is one in your false church.)

I don't hate Jews. I have repeatedly stated that Jews are only the faithful from Abraham. You claim a false gospel that establishes their election part from faith in Christ.

I would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth. That will never happen if what you preach is true.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, let them. And the offensive one be banned forever.

In my post "Jesus Verses Saul" I in obedience to Matthew 18:15 brought your offenses against me and you ignore the Scripture that calls you to account and obey the Lord when a Christian tells you your sin. You continue to read things into my words I never said and twist my words to say things I never said and when brought to account you ignore your sin and continue your behavior. This makes you a fake Christians, no Christian at all.
You offend me. You are offensive. There is something wrong with you. I prefer to say you're not a true born-again believer for you make no attempt to hide your offensive behavior and even continue it when called to account.
There is a long line of offensive comments by you against me and you need to stop.
Leave me and my threads alone, and don't think this is a public forum and you don't have to because then you're going to hound me on my threads and keep up your attacks against me.
You need to be kicked off this site for your pagan, heathen unchristian behavior. Christ is in me and what you do to these the least of [His] brethren YOU HAVE DONE IT UNTO HIM. Jew-Hater.
You fake.

STAY OFF MY THREADS ACCUSER OF THE BRETHREN!
STAY OFF THIS FORUM.

I publicly confess Christ and you ask that I be judged for my confession.

I wasn't talking about banning anyone. Truth stands up to scrutiny. I was simply asking esteemed Christian men to weigh between our positions. That is all.

How do you know I'm not a Jew? I don't know for 100 percent that I'm not. The DNA of Abraham has mixed with all nations of the earth. Your position is self defeating.

 

[TibiasDad]

You're not a Christian because one cannot claim the love Jesus and hate the people He was born from.

You can’t be a Christian and hate anyone… we are to “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also.” (Luke 6:27-29)

Doug

 

[Diserner]

You can’t be a Christian and hate anyone…

It's a sad thing, but Christians do indeed sin, lol.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You can’t be a Christian and hate anyone… we are to “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also.” (Luke 6:27-29)

Doug

You really have misunderstood the Lord's teaching. Not only that, but because you misunderstand the Lord's teaching by believing what you have falsely been taught from Gentile propaganda, to maintain your understanding you therefore teach Jesus CHANGED the Law of Moses, but that can't be the correct understanding of your propaganda because Jesus said unequivocally that He did not come to change the Law of Moses which is tantamount to destroying the Law of Moses if He did.

So, to be as honest as I always am you believe in false teaching on God's instruction and command on love. But that's the Gentile propaganda you are infected with, and because of your misunderstanding of the Scripture you post, any and all false doctrine or belief does affect one's relationship with God.
So, I'll just leave it at this point at that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I see @synergy supports sin (post#42.)
But that's the way of Gentile Christianity to violate the Word of God.
That's why I came out of her and became separate as saith the Lord.
But God will judge you according to my gospel. And He'll use the Law of Moses in which to do it.

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom. 2:4–6.

You are infected with Gentile propaganda. You are indoctrinated with the teaching of the Constantinian church theology. The Lord says, to come out of her and be separate. If you don't, God will give you over to a reprobate mind as says the Scripture.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom. 2:12–16.

But you know nothing of the truth of God. God has sent Gentiles a strong delusion that they will believe the lie. I think you should ask God to open your eyes to His truth and not the lies of the Gentile church teaching of the last 1900 years. I can put it no other way. Repent and believe the true Gospel.

 

[synergy]

I see @synergy supports sin (post#42.)
But that's the way of Gentile Christianity to violate the Word of God.
That's why I came out of her and became separate as saith the Lord.
But God will judge you according to my gospel. And He'll use the Law of Moses in which to do it.

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom. 2:4–6.

You are infected with Gentile propaganda. You are indoctrinated with the teaching of the Constantinian church theology. The Lord says, to come out of her and be separate. If you don't, God will give you over to a reprobate mind as says the Scripture.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom. 2:12–16.

But you know nothing of the truth of God. God has sent Gentiles a strong delusion that they will believe the lie. I think you should ask God to open your eyes to His truth and not the lies of the Gentile church teaching of the last 1900 years. I can put it no other way. Repent and believe the true Gospel.

So your "truth of God" is the ethnic cleansing of all Gentiles from within Jewish territory. Seriously?

God Himself will cleanse Jewish territory of ALL Gentiles from its borders.

Listen, I grew up in a neighborhood where there was a Hassidic Jewish Synagogue. We, as Gentiles, always had very good relations with them. They would ask us to perform tasks that they could not on their Sabbath. I can assure you that we all here want the best for not just Jewish people but for people of all ethnicities.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So your "truth of God" is the ethnic cleansing of all Gentiles from within Jewish territory. Seriously?

I always find it astounding Christians who don't read their bible and if they do come away with false understanding of what they read. What I said is in the Bible. Why wouldn't God finally give His people their land all for themselves as promised through covenant and prophecy and cleanse Gentiles from out of their land. It was so during the time of the Tabernacle, and it came with separation from Gentiles and a command to "not mingle with the Gentile nations and learn their ways."
Read your bible. But give up the Gentile propaganda you've been infected with in your education.

Listen, I grew up in a neighborhood where there was a Hassidic Jewish Synagogue. We, as Gentiles, always had very good relations with them. They would ask us to perform tasks that they could not on their Sabbath. I can assure you that we all here want the best for not just Jewish people but for people of all ethnicities.

Good for you. I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood as well. Mom used to buy our clothes from a man who had a clothing store on Brooklyn Avenue named "Zellman's" But at the age of ten after dad died mom remarried and my new stepdad moved us (brothers and sisters) out of the shack we lived in and into a four-bedroom home. That man changed my life. But I was ten and knew nothing about ethnicity. All my instruction is from the Word of God and NOT the word of men. I suggest you do the same.

 

[synergy]

I always find it astounding Christians who don't read their bible and if they do come away with false understanding of what they read. What I said is in the Bible. Why wouldn't God finally give His people their land all for themselves as promised through covenant and prophecy and cleanse Gentiles from out of their land. It was so during the time of the Tabernacle, and it came with separation from Gentiles and a command to "not mingle with the Gentile nations and learn their ways."
Read your bible. But give up the Gentile propaganda you've been infected with in your education.

Christ made it clear to Pilate and to everyone that his Kingdom is not territorial. It is "not of this world". So don't go hungering for a territorial ethnic cleansing of anyone let alone Gentiles.

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Muslims say

 

[praise_yeshua]

Christ made it clear to Pilate and to everyone that his Kingdom is not territorial. It is "not of this world". So don't go hungering for a territorial ethnic cleansing of anyone let alone Gentiles.

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Muslims say

They sought a heavenly city who's builder and maker is God.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So your "truth of God" is the ethnic cleansing of all Gentiles from within Jewish territory. Seriously?

Listen, I grew up in a neighborhood where there was a Hassidic Jewish Synagogue. We, as Gentiles, always had very good relations with them. They would ask us to perform tasks that they could not on their Sabbath. I can assure you that we all here want the best for not just Jewish people but for people of all ethnicities.

Christ made it clear to Pilate and to everyone that his Kingdom is not territorial. It is "not of this world". So don't go hungering for a territorial ethnic cleansing of anyone let alone Gentiles.

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Muslims say

I don't care about Muslims. That people as the descendants of Ishmael and Esau are in disobedience to God and God will deal with them at the appropriate time.

And yes, that's what Jesus said to Pilate.

But this is what the Father said to Abraham:

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Genesis 17:6–10.

This is an everlasting covenant between God, Abraham, and his seed meaning the children of Jacob/Israel who todays are called Jews. It's an eternal covenant with no end. Abraham is given the land which in Genesis 34 is mapped out by God. And God the Father Himself shall sit on His throne in Jerusalem and all the Hebrew people living at that time will live in their land Promised by God and God will be that High Tower spoken of in Scripture. And in the Scripture, there are countless passages speaking of Israel living in their own land, with their children, both boys and girls playing in the streets. But there is NO PASSAGE of Scripture of Gentiles living among Israel in their promised land. NONE.
There are passages of Scripture of Gentiles ("nations") having to travel to Israel and Jerusalem to worship the King and observe the Feast of Tabernacles and they are commanded to obey the Law of Moses. All the tribes of Israel shall possess the land, each having their own assigned plot and there will be no Gentiles in any territory. Finally, their land shall be a land of milk and honey and there shall be great abundance and every pot shall be consecrated to the Lord and He shall fill every pot. "And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts (Zech. 14:21.)
In other words, NO GENTILES in the land of the house of Israel.
Spend more time in the Hebrew Scriptures and learn that a Christianity which is separate from its Hebrew roots is no Christianity at all but instead a Gentile fantasy or heresy and false beliefs in the edited for personal attack

 

[jeremiah1five]

I publicly confess Christ and you ask that I be judged for my confession.

I wasn't talking about banning anyone. Truth stands up to scrutiny. I was simply asking esteemed Christian men to weigh between our positions. That is all.

How do you know I'm not a Jew? I don't know for 100 percent that I'm not. The DNA of Abraham has mixed with all nations of the earth. Your position is self defeating.

Well, let's take that to a logical and reasonable conclusion which just might be new revelation at this time, the end times, upon which God may be shedding light on, for I have the same thoughts.
So then, IF God made covenant with Abraham and his seed, then God is an ethnic God. Gentiles (non-Hebrew) came into existence when Abraham and his descendants were set apart FROM and separated FROM everyone else that are not his seed.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house (Abraham had no children at this time) or bought with money [slaves/servants] of any stranger which is not of thy seed (which means, proselytes.)
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. (This also speaks of ethnicity.)
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. (In other words, this person remains NON-HEBREW/Gentile and removed from Abraham's presence - cut off.)
Genesis 17:11–14.

Conclusion: God's covenant with Abraham is eternal and extends to Abraham's seed and we - hopefully - know that Gentiles do not come from the seed of Abraham. So, God 'created' a race and in doing so everyone not part of this race through covenant (seed) and circumcision (blessings) are to be cut off from his presence and from his blessings for the covenant is between God and Abraham and his seed to enjoy all blessings and benefits of said covenant. Anyone who is not of his seed but is circumcised can still experience the blessings of the covenant but not the covenant itself for it is between God and Abraham and his seed. Servants and proselytes (circumcised) can receive the blessings of the covenant but are NOT IN COVENANT for they are NOT Abraham's seed, and the covenant is between God, Abraham, and HIS SEED (at this time, although we - hopefully - know the promises are fulfilled in Christ but Abraham lived this covenant in his time and eventually in the daily and yearly lives of his seed. Abe may or may not have been told by God of the Redeemer-Kinsman and Savior and Messiah, but we can only guess.)
This is a family covenant and one that is made with Abraham's DNA. Ethnicity. Race.
There is prophecy that Abe's seed would go into captivity.
Two more covenants (not counting the Davidic) God would make with the children of Israel (Mosaic) and the House of Israel, (northern tribes) and Judah (southern tribes) the New Covenant.

And you are right. God was the one that dispersed His covenant people at least three times in Hebrew history, (Assyria 722 BC) and Babylon (586 BC) and the Romans (70 AD.)
Then there are the Samaritans. Half-Jew, but STILL in covenant with God through DNA. The woman at the well was a daughter of Abraham and lived and accessed a plot of land by Jacob's well. She received blessings from Jesus and so did her family and neighbors. The Samaritans are in Scripture and covenant and are the link to a people that would be born in Exile that would not be unreasonable to conclude would have intermarried with non-Hebrews through 900 years at least which eventually became the offspring of Abraham STILL although not living in Israel but in far reaches of the nations of the world.

The gospel has always gone west from Jerusalem. It went into Turkey (Asia Minor), southern, central and western Europe. It crossed the Atlantic to the east coast eventually traveling to the west coast, crossed the Pacific to Asia, into India, and is nearly making full transit back to Israel.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. Mk 13:10.

Why? Because that's where the seed of Abraham live, among Gentiles in Gentile nations and it is God's purpose to let His Ethnic, DNA people of the covenant KNOW that He has kept His Promise that Israel's promised and prophesied Messiah had come. God is only primarily interested in His covenant people, and this includes the seed of Abraham, including those that intermarried (raped, concubine, etc) that are his seed. So, now we come to your statement

How do you know I'm not a Jew? I don't know for 100 percent that I'm not. The DNA of Abraham has mixed with all nations of the earth.

That's right, we don't know for sure. BUT if what I said is correct, then those half-Jew, half-Gentiles (and it doesn't have to be "half" anything) then anyone who considers themselves Gentile just might have Hebrew blood/DNA in them and are STILL a people in the Abrahamic Covenant regardless of if they know it and THAT'S WHY they are saved.
Anyone who is born-again that is Gentile or consider themselves Gentile, I believe, have Abraham's DNA and are saved because they are STILL God's covenant people and God keeps His promises.
What a revelation.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's right, we don't know for sure. BUT if what I said is correct, then those half-Jew, half-Gentiles (and it doesn't have to be "half" anything) then anyone who considers themselves Gentile just might have Hebrew blood/DNA in them and are STILL a people in the Abrahamic Covenant regardless of if they know it and THAT'S WHY they are saved.
Anyone who is born-again that is Gentile or consider themselves Gentile, I believe, have Abraham's DNA and are saved because they are STILL God's covenant people and God keeps His promises.
What a revelation.

Then you've established the covenant based upon human DNA. Which is contrary to


Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It has nothing to do with the DNA of men.

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Then you've established the covenant based upon human DNA. Which is contrary to
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

I'm sure those stones would also possess the DNA of Abraham. After all, it is a covenant with him and HIS SEED and as per the covenant promises of God the stones would definitely have Hebrew DNA.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
It has nothing to do with the DNA of men.

When God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and circumcision was performed, this covenant produced a non-Hebrew people we call Gentile. Before covenant there were no Gentiles.
Israel is the natural Olive tree and a Jew and when Jews began to be born again of the Spirit Israel became spiritual Israel. Saul is not teaching only Jewish Christians are Jew. He is making distinction between obedience and disobedience and the Jews were both. Here, Saul writes to Jewish Christians at Rome with proselytes, God-Fearers, and a few hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Gentiles. But he's addressing Jewish Christians at Rome.

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and kapprovest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Rom. 2:17–29.

Saul's letter to Jewish Christians at Rome as a rabbi writes and argues a point about obedience and disobedience. It's a Pharisaical form of debate. First a premise, then Scripture and commentary supporting or refuting what's being discussed, then a ruling is given. The Talmud is full of this form of debate, but Saul is not debating an issue with other rabbis, he's debating within himself.

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid! Rom. 3:1–4.

What Saul is doing is called "Halakah." Look it up. His Roman letter is full of this form of commentary. Their rabbinic Talmud is full of such discussions, especially the statement "God forbid."

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Christ is the fulfillment of all covenants and prophecies about Him. He didn't abolish the Law and He didn't change the Law, and the Law is still valid for the people of God. Even Saul obeyed the Law after meeting Yeshua Messiah. The elders of the Temple address Saul:

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.

Saul was and is and remained a rabbi and continued to obey the Law of Moses. True, Biblical Christianity is Completed Judaism.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

That would be impossible because these covenants were made with Abraham and His seed and Gentiles are NOT his seed.

False Gentiles are his seed Rom 4:16-17

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five


False Gentiles are his seed Rom 4:16-17

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Your first error, as is the first error of a great many Gentiles is to think Saul's letter to Rome was written to Gentiles. It wasn't. He may discuss Gentiles and at that most likely Gentile proselytes and God-Fearers, but Saul was writing to Jewish Christians. A purview of the content of all his letters (except Timothy 1&2) contains extensive discussion of Abraham, Moses, the Law, the covenants, Israel's prophets and their prophecies, the Temple life, Israel's history, and culture, and Jewish daily life and living.

Proof:
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? Rom. 4:1.

Abraham is not the father of Gentiles.

Proof:
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Rom. 4:5–6.

Addressing Jewish Christians who would know David and the history of his life and writings of Psalms, specifically Psalms 32, something Gentiles would know nothing of.

Proof:
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. Rom. 4:9.

Proof:
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Rom. 4:14.

Uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Gentiles know next to nothing about Hebrew history, and the Jews religion.

More proof of your quotation of 16 & 17.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all [meaning the Jews],
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom. 4:16–17.

Again, your error is to think that Saul is writing to Gentiles in his Roman letter. He is not. Gentiles were enemies of the Jews, they had their community, and the Jews had their, and they did not mingle amongst each other as they were separate from each other.
If you correct this thinking, you'd be taking your first step to a deeper revelation from God about this "so-great salvation."

 

[brightfame52]

Your first error, as is the first error of a great many Gentiles is to think Saul's letter to Rome was written to Gentiles. It wasn't. He may discuss Gentiles and at that most likely Gentile proselytes and God-Fearers, but Saul was writing to Jewish Christians. A purview of the content of all his letters (except Timothy 1&2) contains extensive discussion of Abraham, Moses, the Law, the covenants, Israel's prophets and their prophecies, the Temple life, Israel's history, and culture, and Jewish daily life and living.

Proof:
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? Rom. 4:1.

Abraham is not the father of Gentiles.

Proof:
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Rom. 4:5–6.

Addressing Jewish Christians who would know David and the history of his life and writings of Psalms, specifically Psalms 32, something Gentiles would know nothing of.

Proof:
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. Rom. 4:9.

Proof:
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Rom. 4:14.

Uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Gentiles know next to nothing about Hebrew history, and the Jews religion.

More proof of your quotation of 16 & 17.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all [meaning the Jews],
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom. 4:16–17.

Again, your error is to think that Saul is writing to Gentiles in his Roman letter. He is not. Gentiles were enemies of the Jews, they had their community, and the Jews had their, and they did not mingle amongst each other as they were separate from each other.
If you correct this thinking, you'd be taking your first step to a deeper revelation from God about this "so-great salvation."

Gentiles are the seed of Abraham