Jesus is NOT God

[Olde Tymer]

~

humans procreate.

According to Webster's, procreate means to propagate, i.e. to reproduce.

That definition is very useful because nobody's origin since Adam has been ex
nihilo, i.e. made from, or out of, nothing. All of us are simply extensions of Adam,
viz: more of Adam, beginning with his wife Eve. She was constructed with material
taken from his body. And from then on, every human being has been constructed
with material taken from the bodies of parents who descended from Adam.

● Acts 17:26 . . From one man He made every nation of men

Now; supposing God were to procreate. Wouldn't His offspring be just as divine
as Himself similar to how Adam's offspring are just as human as himself?

I suspect the Watchtower Society thought of this a long ago and that's why they've
given the meaning of "only begotten son" their own meaning in order to evade its
obvious ramifications.
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[Wrangler]

According to Webster's, procreate means to propagate, i.e. to reproduce.

Right. Reproduction is a form of production, which is a form of creation. Here is the definition from merriam webster

procreate​

verb​

pro·cre·ate ˈprō-krē-ˌāt

procreated; procreating
Synonyms of procreate
transitive verb
: to beget or bring forth (offspring) : PROPAGATE

 

[Olde Tymer]

to beget or bring forth (offspring)

Keep going; you've almost got it!
_

 

[Wrangler]

Keep going; you've almost got it!
_

I already went all the way. See thread title. Being a son, Jesus is a created Being - as all men are.

 

[Olde Tymer]

.

Jesus is a created Being - as all men are.

Yes, very good. Jesus' human origin can be easily traced all the way back to Adam
and the very dust from whence Adam was created. But your picture is only half
complete. Where are you on his divine origin?
_

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
The Watchtower Society differs with regular Christians in matters pertaining to the
Logos' humanity.

The Society insists that when the Logos of John 1:1-3 came into the world as the
flesh of John 1:14, he had to relinquish his spirit existence in order to take on a
human existence because it was impossible for him to exist as a spirit being and a
human being simultaneously. In other words: he could be one or the other but not
both at the same time.

Consequently, it was necessary for the Society's version of the Logos' human
existence to remain deceased after dying on the cross in order to make it possible
for the Logos to be restored to his original existence as a spirit being.

FAQ: What became of their Jesus' corpse?

POSIT: The Society claims it's being kept in storage on the earth in a condition, and
a location, known only to God.

** Were John Que and/or Jane Doe Jehovah's Witness to be questioned if they
believe in Jesus Christ's resurrection, I can assure you they would answer in the
affirmative. However, they and the interviewer wouldn't be speaking the same
language as the conversation would be talking about two very dissimilar procedures
that go by the same name. In other words: the interviewer would soon find himself
thrown off by semantic double speak as he would talking about a resurrected human
being whereas the JWs would be talking about a resurrected spirit being.
_

 

[Diserner]

Wow, Old Tymer, how dare you hijack Wrangler's thread.

I'm going to have to report you.

Sorry, not sorry.

 

[civic]

Which is a correct impression as the word son means created.

and every FATHER was created too.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, very good. Jesus' human origin

Jesus only has human origin's, being a man and all. Not once does the Bible say he is some hybrid.

But that is a distraction. Even if Jesus had origins other than being human, it does not make him God. The Bible repeatedly says he is the son of god. That's good enough for me. Why is that not good enough for you?

 

[Fred]

The Bible repeatedly says he is the son of god. That's good enough for me. Why is that not good enough for you?

The Son of God (John 20:31) is "my God" (John 20:28).

 

[Wrangler]

The Son of God (John 20:31) is "my God" (John 20:28).

There are many gods of many people. 1 COR 8:5. It does not make Jesus his own God, the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Jesus.

 

[Fred]

There are many gods of many people.

False gods.

Whenever a believer in the Bible uses the expression "my God" it ALWAYS refers to the Almighty.

 

[Wrangler]

False gods.

Whenever a believer in the Bible uses the expression "my God" it ALWAYS refers to the Almighty.

No! Absolutely not. There are many REAL lowercase gods in the Bible. You are adding the word "false" to scripture.

1 COR 8:5 does not refer false gods but REAL lowercase gods.

You do know that there is more than one sense to the word "god", right? One sense is not false. All senses are valid senses. When it is said that LeBron James is the god of basketball, that is a true and valid use of lowercase god. Consult your favorite lexicon.

The word "god" and "lord" can be synonyms and both are titles. Just because LeBron is a god does not make him Jesus' god. Yet, Jesus has a god. Does it make sense to you that god has a god?

 

[Fred]

No! Absolutely not. There are many REAL lowercase gods in the Bible. You are adding the word "false" to scripture.

Galatians 4:8

You do know that there is more than one sense to the word "god", right?

You dodged the use of "my God" because it refutes your heresy.

 

[Olde Tymer]

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The Watchtower Society's theology is based on a version called monolatrism,
which basically alleges that all gods are actual deities; though not all deities are
deemed worthy of worship.

Standard Christianity recognizes but two categories of deity-- the true and the
false, viz: the authentic and the imitation, the intrinsic and the artificial --whereas
the Watchtower Society's theologians took the liberty to create a third category
sandwiched between the true and the false called "mighty ones". The mighty-one
category is a sort of neutral zone where qualifying personages are placed as deities
without violating the very first of the Ten Commandments.

This gets kind of humorous when we plug "mighty one" into a selection of locations.
For example:

"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a
mighty one." (John 1:1)

And another:

"No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten mighty one who is in the
bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him." (John 1:18)

The "mighty one" category was an invention of necessity. In other words: without
it, the Society would be forced to classify the Logos per John 1:1 as a false deity
seeing as how Deut 6:4, John 17:3, and 1Cor 8:4-6 testify that there is only one
true deity.
_

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
The "my God" thing is addressed in post No.45
_

 

[101G]

In Scripture, Jesus is explicitly taught to be the son of God. This proves Scripturally that he is not God.

Demonstrable proof that Jesus is NOT God is that Jesus died. It is the most important fact of the Bible (beyond there being one God, whose name is YHWH (not Jesus) who does not change). Below are a selection of relevent syllogisms.

P1. God never dies (is eternal and unchanging). Isaiah 40:28, 1 Timothy 1:17
P2. Jesus (was born, grew, became weary and) died.
C. Jesus is NOT God.

P1. God is not man. Hosea 11:9
P2. Jesus is a man.
C. Jesus is NOT God.

P1. No one has seen God. John 1:18, 1 Timothy 1:17, 1 John 4:12
P2. Many have seen Jesus.
C. Jesus is NOT God.

P1. Jesus sits at the right hand of God. Ps 110:1, Mk 16:19, Lk 22:69, Acts 2:33; 7:55, Eph 1:20, Col 3:1, Heb 1:3; 10:12, 1 Peter 3:22
P2. One cannot sit at their own right hand.
C. Jesus is NOT God.

P1. God is the Father (alone). John 17:1-3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Part 7.
P2. Jesus is not the Father.
C. Jesus is NOT God.

Trinitarians seek to use words to mean what they do not mean to such an extent that a common saying is the trinity cannot be understood, let alone explained. If so, no responsible person has any business advocating, as true, such nonsensical idolatry. It’s an Appeal to Ignorance.

well how come Jesus is the Only One who has ETERNAL Life? scripture, 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Only means, and no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively.

what you need to do is understand why, and what the "TITLE" Son really means.

101G.

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
● John 1:18 . . No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in
the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.

The Greek word for "only-begotten" in that verse is monogenes (mon-og en-ace')
which is also found in John 1:14, John 3:16, John 3:18, and 1John 4:9. It's a
combination of two words.

The first is mono, which music buffs recognize as a single channel rather than two
or four in surround sound stereo. Mono is very common; e.g. monogamy,
monofilament, monotonous, mononucleotide, monochrome, monogram, monolith,
monologue, monomial, et al.

The other word is genes; from whence we get the English word gene; which
Webster's defines as a biological term indicating a part of a cell that controls or
influences the appearance, growth, etc., of a living thing. In other words:
monogenes refers to one specific biological gene set rather than many.

Monogenes always, and without exception, refers to parents' sole biological child in
the New Testament. If parents have two or more biological children, none of them
qualify as monogenes because in order to qualify as a monogenes child, the child
has to be an only child.

Other examples of monogenes children are located at Luke 7:12, Luke 8:42, and
Luke 9:38.

So then, scientifically speaking, Christ is unique in that he is God's only child by
means of reproduction, whereas God's other children are not; viz: they're adopted.
(Rom 8:15-16, Gal 4:4-6, Eph 1:4-5)

FAQ: God fathered a child?

REPLY: I haven't quite figured this all out yet; but according to Luke 1:35, the Holy
Ghost played a miraculous role in Jesus' conception in such a way that Mary's child
came into the world as God's paternal descendant; which gave the little chap quite
an advantage. (cf. 1John 3:9)

FAQ: What about Heb 11:17 where Isaac is stated to be Abraham's monogenes
child? Wasn't Ishmael a biological child of his too?

REPLY: At the time of the event recorded in the 22nd of Genesis, Ishmael was no
longer Abraham's son. Family law back in that ancient culture allowed a man to
disown a paternal son if the lad was born of a mother in slavery to the man. The
catch is: the man had to emancipate the child's mother, which Abraham had already
done prior to the Akedah: and he had done so at God's urging. So then according to
natural law, Ishmael is one of Abraham's biological sons; whereas according to the
plans and purposes of God, he isn't.

Anyway, the thing is: If Mary's baby was honestly the one true God's paternal
descendant, then it must be that he was born on track for not only David's throne,
but God's throne too.

Well; Jesus need not wait for God to die before inheriting his Father's throne. God
could, if He wanted, invite His descendant to come sit beside Him and together
they could share the throne. I think it's possible David had foreseen that very
thing in Psalm 110:1

If perchance all of the above is true; then I think we may safely assume there is a
whole lot of folks at large in the world today unaware just how special Jesus really is.
_

 

[civic]

I already went all the way. See thread title. Being a son, Jesus is a created Being - as all men are.

just like all fathers are created and all mothers are created.

 

[civic]

Right. Reproduction is a form of production, which is a form of creation. Here is the definition from merriam webster

procreate​

verb​

pro·cre·ate ˈprō-krē-ˌāt

procreated; procreating
Synonyms of procreate
transitive verb
: to beget or bring forth (offspring) : PROPAGATE

the biblical word for only begotten is monogenes. Here is the biblical meaning-definition according to the Greek Lexicons

MONOGENÊS

BAGD: "In the Johannine lit[erature] m[onogenês] is used only of Jesus. The mngs. only, unique may be quite adequate for all its occurrences here...But some (e.g., WBauer, Hdb.) prefer to regard m[onogenês] as somewhat heightened in mng. in J and 1J to only-begotten or begotten of the Only One." (Bauer, it will be remembered, believed the Gospel of John was a gnostic text, and hence saw a theology behind John's writing compatible with the creation of the Logos as a semi-divine intermediary between the Monas and the creation with which He could not directly interact).

Louw & Nida: "Pertaining to what is unique in the sense of being the only one of the same kind or class - 'unique, only.'"

Moulton & Milligan: "Literally 'one of a kind,' 'only,' 'unique' (unicus), not 'only-begotten....'"

Grimm/Thayer: "Single of its kind, only, [A.V. only-begotten]." (Note that Thayer's insertion merely cites the KJV translation, which owes considerable debt to the Vulgate of Jerome, who translated monogenês "unigenitus").

NIDNTT: "The only begotten, or only....RSV and NEB render monogenês as 'only.' This meaning is supported by R. E. Brown, The Gospel According to John, Anchor Bible, I, 1966, 13 f., and D. Moody, “God’s Only Son: The Translation of John 3:16 in the Revised Standard Version,” JBL 72, 1953, 213-19. Lit. it means “of a single kind,” and could even be used in this sense of the Phoenix (1 Clem. 25:2). It is only distantly related to gennao, beget. The idea of “only begotten” goes back to Jerome who used unigenitus in the Vulg. to counter the Arian claim that Jesus was not begotten but made."

Newman: "Unique, only."

LSJ: "Only, single" (references John 1:14, the only NT verse cited).

TDNT: defines monogenês as "only begotten," but distinguishes between nouns ending in -genes and adverbs ending in -genês. The former denote the source of the derivation, the latter the nature of the derivation. Thus, the author (Buchsel) concludes that monogenês means "of sole descent." But Pendrick argues strongly against this view: