Jesus denied being God

[civic]

But there are many words added to that in the bible

Has an ordinary man created all that has been made?

Their dilemma

 

[Peterlag]

As I said elsewhere, it's less about truth and more about appearances at some point with them; it's the nature of the beast. It must be this way. There is no other choice for them after their handful of talking points are exhausted and ours keep coming with something new, and fresh every day.

Trinitarianism can't answer the tough questions and address the Bible in a harmonious way. What they can do is sweep it all under the rug, falsely accuse others, and muddy the waters until it's difficult to even know who to trust anymore to the untrained eye. That's what their goal seems to be sometimes. It's disaster control... that's all it is. If they can't beat you on Scriptural ground then might as well smear you.

Sorry, I am not sure what you thought would happen, but I naively and innocently thought that truth would prevail and honesty would reign supreme in the end of a debate. No, dear Peterlag, it doesn't work this way because their hearts are evil even though they quote the Bible and say they're Christian. Forums are notoriously rocky soil because of some of these things. That's why I don't take any of it personally no matter what they say. I already know the game they're playing. I simply prefer to keep it at that and let none of the deception enter my heart.

God bless Peterlag.

You say the hearts are evil. This I know too because I know the Bible and everyone that was against the truth attacked the messenger personally. They did it even to Jesus. The devil attacks, blames and accuses the other guy not on the subject matter, but on him personally.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't make any mistakes concerning the trinity. I know Jesus is not God and I post a whole bunch of data about it that I know about from folks all over the Internet. That somehow means according to you that I have not vetted something. Here's more. Find something wrong with the data and not the messenger...

You're judging the messenger Jesus Christ. You're finding fault with Jesus Christ. Physician, heal thyself.

At times, you and your "data" are the fault. There is no separating them.

The Old Testament prophecies about the coming Messiah foretold that he would be a human being who would be the offspring of Eve (Genesis 3:15); a descendant of Abraham (Genesis 12:3; 18:18; 22:18); a descendant of Judah (Genesis 49:10; a prophet like Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15); a son of David (2 Samuel 7:12-13; Isaiah 11:1); a king ruling under Yahweh (Psalm 110:1); and a ruler from among the people of Israel (Jeremiah30:21). That explains why the people were all expecting a human Messiah. Psalm 110:1 merits special attention because it's especially clear but has been misunderstood and misrepresented by most English versions that read “The LORD says to my Lord….” The word “LORD” is Yahweh, but many Trinitarian commentators argue that “my Lord” in this verse is the Hebrew word "adonai" that is another name for God, and that would provide proof of the divinity of the Messiah. But the Hebrew text does not use "adonai" but rather "adoni" which is always used in Scripture to describe human masters and lords, but never God.

No one has denied Jesus was of the offspring Abraham. In fact, He is the only Eternal Heir of Abraham. No mere man possesses Eternal life. Adam died. Jesus is both a man and God. Your reference only deals with part of the narrative. You're living in an incomplete fantasy of evil imagination.

The Old Testament refers to the Messiah as “one like a son of man” and the phrase “son of man” was a Semitic idiom for a human being and it's used that way throughout the Old Testament. The phrase “son of man” also became a title of the Messiah when Daniel referred to him as “one like a son of man” (Daniel 7:13) and that explains why Jesus called himself “the son of man” many times. The use of the “son of man” in reference to the Messiah is one more piece of evidence that Jesus was fully human and one more reason that people were expecting the Messiah to be human. The New Testament teaches Jesus was a man and Jesus himself said he was “a man who has told you the truth” John 8:40. Jesus was not being disingenuous and hiding his “divine nature” but rather was making a factual statement that reinforced what the Jews were expecting of the Messiah—that he would be a fully human man.

That is all YOU see. That is all they saw. You're blinded by your hatred for Jesus Christ. I love Him. As such, my love is due Him. I would never say that Jesus was solely a man. To do such a thing is evil and devoid of common sense given the complete narrative of the Scriptures.

The apostles also taught Jesus was a man and we see this when the Apostle Peter spoke in his sermon to the crowds gathered on the Day of Pentecost making a very clear declaration that Jesus was a man approved of God: “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you…” (Acts 2:22). Here Peter clearly taught that Jesus was a man and that God did miracles “by him.” Paul also taught Jesus was a man and we can see that when he was in Athens teaching a crowd of unsaved Gentiles about Jesus Christ and said that God would judge the world “by the man whom He has appointed” (Acts 17:31). Paul never said or implied that Jesus was anything but a “man.”

Judges of men are not Eternal. Men judge one another and face the same condemnation of death as the men they judge.

You don't recognize this because you're judging solely as a man. You're not rightfully recognizing your own limitation as a man and that Jesus shared NONE of those limitation with you.

Thusly, you're dragging Jesus down to your evil state in your bogus theology.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You say the hearts are evil. This I know too because I know the Bible and everyone that was against the truth attacked the messenger personally. They did it even to Jesus. The devil attacks, blames and accuses the other guy not on the subject matter, but on him personally.

Jesus wasn't guilty. You are. Big difference. Jesus was innocent of your/their charges against Him.

You're not like Jesus. You don't even recognize how better Jesus is than you are.

Truth is an absolute defense against lies.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You say the hearts are evil. This I know too because I know the Bible and everyone that was against the truth attacked the messenger personally. They did it even to Jesus. The devil attacks, blames and accuses the other guy not on the subject matter, but on him personally.

Hey everyone....

Isn't it crazy to do what @Peterlag is doing?

Isn't it delusional to claim that your personal "works" prove you're of God... Yet, simultaneously propose to complaining when your own "personal works" show that you're not of God is also wrong?

This is the "ole" Pharisee argument that Jesus witnessed....

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus wasn't guilty. You are. Big difference. Jesus was innocent of your/their charges against Him.

You're not like Jesus. You don't even recognize how better Jesus is than you are.

Truth is an absolute defense against lies.

You are saying Jesus is God... Jesus is saying he isn't God... we are saying he isn't God.. Jesus didn't claim it... we aren't claiming it. Do you see the difference between Jesus and us and you and the Pharisees who hated him?

 

[Runningman]

You asked for Scriptures. I gave it. You're ignoring them.

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Even if you claim that this was temporary, it still happened. Don't ignore the obvious.

If you know Greek and study the manuscripts, you'll know παρακαλέω is "PRAYER"....

Mar 5:23 And παρακαλέω him greatly, saying, My little daughter lieth at the point of death: I pray thee, come and lay thy hands on her, that she may be healed; and she shall live.

While Jesus was with them, they could ask him and he would in turn pray to the Father for their requests. After Jesus left, he said to not ask him for anything, but rather to make their requests known directly to the Father. Jesus was very consistent on his teachings regarding prayer to the Father.

For example, Jesus requires asking God for permission on the gift of the Advocate because Jesus has no control over that, but only God does.

​

John 14​

16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate o be with you forever—​

Another example is that after Jesus was taken to heaven, he taught them to only ask the Father from that point forward... full stop... there are no further instructions. Do you think this is possible why your prayers aren't answered?

You are to speak directly to the Father in your prayers. Do you do that?

John 16​

23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.​

25I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. An hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26In that day you will ask in My name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God.c 28I came from the Father and entered the world. In turn, I will leave the world and go to the Father.”​

 

[praise_yeshua]

You are saying Jesus is God... Jesus is saying he isn't God... we are saying he isn't God.. Jesus didn't claim it... we aren't claiming it. Do you see the difference between Jesus and us and you and the Pharisees who hated him?

No man can do what Jesus did. Your works are not the works of Jesus Christ. Pretending that Jesus isn't God is your delusion.

If you're going to compare your works to Jesus as proof of anything. You fail.

 

[praise_yeshua]

While Jesus was with them, they could ask him and he would in turn pray to the Father for their requests.

No. They prayed to Him and HE answered. You're a liar. I believe what Jesus said. In works, you fail to prove you're of God.

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Once you accurately deal with what Jesus Himself said.... then I'll be glad to deal with the other.

 

[praise_yeshua]

While Jesus was with them, they could ask him and he would in turn pray to the Father for their requests. After Jesus left, he said to not ask him for anything, but rather to make their requests known directly to the Father. Jesus was very consistent on his teachings regarding prayer to the Father.

For example, Jesus requires asking God for permission on the gift of the Advocate because Jesus has no control over that, but only God does.

​

John 14​

16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate o be with you forever—​

Another example is that after Jesus was taken to heaven, he taught them to only ask the Father from that point forward... full stop... there are no further instructions. Do you think this is possible why your prayers aren't answered?

You are to speak directly to the Father in your prayers. Do you do that?

John 16​

23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.​

25I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. An hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26In that day you will ask in My name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God.c 28I came from the Father and entered the world. In turn, I will leave the world and go to the Father.”​

BTW... Have you begun learning Greek? I asked you about a Greek word. You're ignoring it. παρακαλέω

 

[Obadiah]

Trinitarian life begins in the fellowship of the triune God. It begins in the loving embrace and communion of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The witness effected by this love and communion not only leads us to point to Jesus and to the heavenly Father as the source of all life and love but also causes us to deal with others and with the entire environment with justice and mercy. In other words, we are called to treat others in a way that is consistent with the kingdom of God.

 

[Peterlag]

You're judging the messenger Jesus Christ. You're finding fault with Jesus Christ. Physician, heal thyself.

At times, you and your "data" are the fault. There is no separating them.



No one has denied Jesus was of the offspring Abraham. In fact, He is the only Eternal Heir of Abraham. No mere man possesses Eternal life. Adam died. Jesus is both a man and God. Your reference only deals with part of the narrative. You're living in an incomplete fantasy of evil imagination.



That is all YOU see. That is all they saw. You're blinded by your hatred for Jesus Christ. I love Him. As such, my love is due Him. I would never say that Jesus was solely a man. To do such a thing is evil and devoid of common sense given the complete narrative of the Scriptures.



Judges of men are not Eternal. Men judge one another and face the same condemnation of death as the men they judge.

You don't recognize this because you're judging solely as a man. You're not rightfully recognizing your own limitation as a man and that Jesus shared NONE of those limitation with you.

Thusly, you're dragging Jesus down to your evil state in your bogus theology.

The term "solely a man" or "mere man" are not in the Scriptures. Jusus was the son of God, the Messiah, and now the resurrected Lord Christ.

 

[TomL]

Trinitarianism can't answer the tough questions and address the Bible in a harmonious way. What they can do is sweep it all under the rug, falsely accuse others, and muddy the waters until it's difficult to even know who to trust anymore to the untrained eye. That's what their goal seems to be sometimes. It's disaster control... that's all it is. If they can't beat you on Scriptural ground then might as well smear you.

That's rather funny as it seems you cannot answer the tough question

Whether it is dealing with the pre-existence of Christ, Prayer being offered to him or the fact you are to honor Christ as you honor the father, or you do not honor the Father

 

[TomL]

The term "solely a man" or "mere man" are not in the Scriptures. Jusus was the son of God, the Messiah, and now the resurrected Lord Christ.

And in so saying they dishonor the father

John 5:19–23 (KJV 1900) — 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The term "solely a man" or "mere man" are not in the Scriptures. Jusus was the son of God, the Messiah, and now the resurrected Lord Christ.

I said much more than what you responded. One statement that Jesus was a "man". Doesn't tell everything about Jesus no more than calling you a "man" says everything about you. Why the delusion?

Are you a son or father?

You can't be a son and a father at the same time right? You're worse than any Calvinist I've ever meet.

 

[Runningman]

No. They prayed to Him and HE answered. You're a liar. I believe what Jesus said. In works, you fail to prove you're of God.

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Once you accurately deal with what Jesus Himself said.... then I'll be glad to deal with the other.

Is standing next to a man and asking him for something what constitutes a prayer in your religion? Is Jesus a liar according to you when he said he will not ask the Father for them on their behalf? He said he won't ask the Father. Jesus isn't answering your prayers according to Scripture. It's the Father... this is what you've been missing.

John 16
23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.
25I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. An hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26In that day you will ask in My name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God.c 28I came from the Father and entered the world. In turn, I will leave the world and go to the Father.”

 

[praise_yeshua]

Is standing next to a man and asking him for something what constitutes a prayer in your religion? Is Jesus a liar according to you when he said he will not ask the Father for them on their behalf? He said he won't ask the Father. Jesus isn't answering your prayers according to Scripture. It's the Father... this is what you've been missing.

John 16
23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.
25I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. An hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26In that day you will ask in My name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God.c 28I came from the Father and entered the world. In turn, I will leave the world and go to the Father.”

You avoiding the plain words of Jesus. No need to go anywhere else. Jesus said plainly that He would answer prayer.

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Like I said before. Even if you believe it is temporary. (Which you've said it was)... then you can't make the argument that

"Jesus never told someone to pray to Him".

We clearly know that you're lying from the words of John 14:13-14.

Like a true deceiver, you refuse to recognize this simple fact.

It speaks to the condition of your evil heart. In works, you deny Jesus Christ.

 

[Runningman]

No man can do what Jesus did. Your works are not the works of Jesus Christ. Pretending that Jesus isn't God is your delusion.

If you're going to compare your works to Jesus as proof of anything. You fail.

Let's see... Jesus walked on water and Peter walked on water. (Matthew 14:25, 29)

Jesus and the other men were given authority to forgive sins. (Matthew 9:6-8)

Jesus told someone who was lame and crippled to walk, they walked, and Peter did the same thing. (John 5:8, Acts 3:6)

Jesus controlled the weather and Elijah controlled the weather. (Mark 4:39, 1 Kings 17:1)

Jesus resurrected someone, Peter and Paul, and the disciples did too. (John 11:43,44, Acts 9:40, Acts 20:10)

Jesus said they would do greater works than him. (John 14:12)

Question, can you do greater works than God? Jesus said they can do greater works than him. At heart, you are ultimately a doubter like Thomas. (John 20:27)

 

[Runningman]

That's rather funny as it seems you cannot answer the tough question

Whether it is dealing with the pre-existence of Christ, Prayer being offered to him or the fact you are to honor Christ as you honor the father, or you do not honor the Father

They've all been debunked.

 

[Runningman]

And in so saying they dishonor the father

John 5:19–23 (KJV 1900) — 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

This passage refers to judgement. You dishonor the Bible be misrepresenting it.