You chose not to highlight what is said about the Lamb because it totally refutes your ridiculous argument.
Keep hiding.
Jesus denied being God
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
You chose not to highlight what is said about the Lamb because it totally refutes your ridiculous argument.
Keep hiding.
Runningman
Well-known member
God sits on the throne... doesn't say the Lamb is sitting on the throne.
They worshipped God.... doesn't say the Lamb is being worshipped.
Unitarianism 1, Trinitarianism 0
Revelation 7
9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Good job!
Jesus now sits on the right hand of the Father. Are you saying that the Father's Right Hand has been displaced/amputated away from the Throne?
Eph 1:20 which He worked in Christ in raising Him from the dead, and He seated Him at His right hand in the heavenlies,
Col 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God.
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels, did He say at any time, "Sit on My right hand until I make Your enemies Your footstool?"
1 Pet 3:22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into Heaven, where the angels and authorities and powers are being subjected to Him.
civic
Well-known member
ya think lol
civic
Well-known member
a giant OOPS lol.
Maybe you should stop denying plain scripture
and start honoring Christ as you honor God (the Father) because if you do not you are not honoring God (the father)
PS you failed to show anywhere I have disagreed with scripture rather I have shown how you have ignored context and denied plain text and even adopted contradictory arguments and were left without any rational explanation of how Phil 2:5ff was consistent with your view the Word was an impersonal thing
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This reads like you've never even heard of the Old Testament. There is no mention of Jesus in the Old Testament doing anything.
That doesn't alert you? You don't want to know what's going on? The NIV says the Lord and some other versions say Jesus because the base Greek manuscripts different on this passage.
The word Lord is the original reading and it was most likely a scribal error that added Jesus because the name Jesus was what was given to the human baby, not the Son/Logos who pre-existed in Trinitarian theology. So as this reads, this is actually a strong argument against Jesus being God, but rather Jesus would be someone who pre-existed as a man. There's the problem.
Odd that Jesus would even be found in Jude 5 unless that it would have within the realm of reason to have his name there. Paul would have to make a similar mistake in 1 Cor 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
So Paul and Jude have to be wrong so that runningman can have his Unitarian doctrine.
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civic
Well-known member
Yes many scriptures point to Christ in the OT. Another case of flat out De Nile
Runningman
Well-known member
Since Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, he doesn't sit on the same throne as the Father, yet those who overcome will sit with Jesus. Therefore, Christians sit at the right hand of the Father. When will you believe?
Revelation 3
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Runningman
Well-known member
Thank you for acknowledging it was a good job to prove Jesus isn't God using Scripture.
Runningman
Well-known member
That's tantamount to an assault on the Bible since you completely take out of context what Jesus was talking about. It refers to honoring Jesus and the Father the same in regards to judgement.
John 5
22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Runningman
Well-known member
Um, buddy, Jesus is the name given to a human, not the name of the pre-existent Son/Logos (as Trinitarianism asserts) so if Jesus was there in the Old Testament that would be a reference to a human in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament, the human Jesus was not there.
Indeed, there are manuscripts that differ on this verse. Most likely it was a scribal error since scribes used shorthand for copying the same words that appeared with frequency, i.e., Lord, Jesus, etc. The shorthand for Lord and Jesus are very similar. It was simply the error of a copyist, human error, and it doesn't make sense when compared to Scripture.
As for 1 Corinthians 10:4, Paul was referring to something spiritual, not literal.
Runningman
Well-known member
Thank you for praying for me though your prayer will not be answered in accordance with me becoming a Trinitarian. Nevertheless, I have no doubt God will hear you. God bless.Pray that runningman peaceably turns his frustration into recognition and acceptance of Christ Jesus in the Godhead.
Good you did some research. Sorry you came to a weak conclusion. You know even if it was a mistake that it was a logical mistake.
Sorry you had to reject Paul too.
God is more powerful than you give him credit for.
Look like you deny the words of ChristThis reads like you've never even heard of the Old Testament. There is no mention of Jesus in the Old Testament doing anything.
That doesn't alert you? You don't want to know what's going on? The NIV says the Lord and some other versions say Jesus because the base Greek manuscripts different on this passage.
The word Lord is the original reading and it was most likely a scribal error that added Jesus because the name Jesus was what was given to the human baby, not the Son/Logos who pre-existed in Trinitarian theology. So as this reads, this is actually a strong argument against Jesus being God, but rather Jesus would be someone who pre-existed as a man. There's the problem.
John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
yet it stated men saw God
Genesis 32:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Judges 13:22 (KJV 1900) — 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
Exodus 24:9–11 (KJV 1900) — 9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
Who did they see if they had not seen the father
John 1:18 (UASV) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, that one has made him fully known.
They saw the pre-incarnate Christ
In the Old Testament, Jehovah stated he is the one who searches the heart and examines the kidneys
(NWT) Jer 17:10 I, Jehovah, am searching the heart, examining the kidneys, even to give to each one according to his ways, according to the fruitage of his dealings.
Christ says I am he
Revelation 2:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
How do you honor him in judgment
and does this have to do with judgment
Revelation 5:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Only God is to be worshiped, but Jesus was worshiped and accepted worship by both men and Angels, indeed all of creation
So once again you fail to honor the Father
and BTW it is not just judgment
John 5:19–22 (ESV) — 19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,
I am afraid it is you who assaults the bible
um your verse says the opposite
Revelation 3
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
