Jesus denied being God

[Peterlag]

GINOLJC, to all.
it was the Lord Jesus who as God/Spirit rose his own body up from the grave. scripture, John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

now, either the Lord Jesus is Lord, or he lied, (God forbid). so please answer 101G as to if you believe that Jesus is God who raised up his own body.

101G.

You don't understand the question. The question is how could God highly exalt Jesus after He raised him out from among the dead if he was already God? The question is how do you highly exalt who is already God?

 

[mikesw]

Same situation here.
Can God be pierced? Or is this a metaphor?

Well, the answer is within the text itself. Let's read

The Lord will deliver the tents of Judah as before, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of those dwelling in Jerusalem will not eclipse Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will defend those residing in Jerusalem; and even the one who stumbles among them will be as David on that day. And the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going out before them. 9 On that day I will seek to destroy all the nations who come out against Jerusalem.​

And I will pour out on the house of David and over those dwelling in Jerusalem a spirit of favor and supplication so that they look to Me, whom they have pierced through. And they will mourn over him as one mourns for an only child and weep bitterly over him as a firstborn​

This is a Messianic passage in which God saves Israel from its enemies through the House of David (David's descendant, Jesus).
The House of David is acting on behalf of God, as if it were God... "like God", or more specifically, like a Messenger of God "the angel of the Lord".
The enemies of Israel will mourn and weep bitterly over the damage (piercing) they inflicted over the House of David (and metaphorically, on the God of Israel, on behalf of which the House of David acts).

Therefore, the passage is not saying that the Messiah will be God, or that God will be pierced, but that the Messiah will act like God, a Messenger of God ("the angel of the Lord") and this is how the Messiah will execute God's salvation.

That is the problem with Unitarians, namely they have a hard time keeping ideas in context.
Zechariah 12:10 (ESV)
10“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.


This is the Lord speaking the prophecy as seen in Zechariah 12:1–2 (ESV)
1The oracle of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:
2“Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup of staggering to all the surrounding peoples. The siege of Jerusalem will also be against Judah.

The events that happened were what Jesus did and shows that he was pierced. This is a difficult prophecy to expect to have been fulfilled by accident. I have highlighted the person who is taking the action here.

 

[civic]

Same situation here.
Can God be pierced? Or is this a metaphor?

Well, the answer is within the text itself. Let's read

The Lord will deliver the tents of Judah as before, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of those dwelling in Jerusalem will not eclipse Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will defend those residing in Jerusalem; and even the one who stumbles among them will be as David on that day. And the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going out before them. 9 On that day I will seek to destroy all the nations who come out against Jerusalem.​

And I will pour out on the house of David and over those dwelling in Jerusalem a spirit of favor and supplication so that they look to Me, whom they have pierced through. And they will mourn over him as one mourns for an only child and weep bitterly over him as a firstborn​

This is a Messianic passage in which God saves Israel from its enemies through the House of David (David's descendant, Jesus).
The House of David is acting on behalf of God, as if it were God... "like God", or more specifically, like a Messenger of God "the angel of the Lord".
The enemies of Israel will mourn and weep bitterly over the damage (piercing) they inflicted over the House of David (and metaphorically, on the God of Israel, on behalf of which the House of David acts).

Therefore, the passage is not saying that the Messiah will be God, or that God will be pierced, but that the Messiah will act like God, a Messenger of God ("the angel of the Lord") and this is how the Messiah will execute God's salvation.

God said in the passage He would be pierced so I believe it and it happened

 

[101G]

You don't understand the question. The question is how could God highly exalt Jesus after He raised him out from among the dead if he was already God? The question is how do you highly exalt who is already God?

nope U did not understand your own answer. one word, "amalgamation" which you did not understand.

101G.

 

[civic]

God didn't became a man and perpetuate the sin of idolatry. Humans as God are not God. Did God cease being God?

He is worshiped by all creation as God on the same throne with the Father.

next fallacy

 

[101G]

God was manifest in the flesh
The Word who was God became flesh

YHWH declared in the OT he would come and dwell with man and that they would pierce Him.

100% correct.

101G

 

[civic]

and no need to post all the scriptures which will be denied anyways.

they have been posted dozens of times already and the uni's remain deep in the waters of De Nile.

 

[mikesw]

and no need to post all the scriptures which will be denied anyways.

they have been posted dozens of times already and the uni's remain deep in the waters of De Nile.

The Unitarians seem to take a hyper-fundamentalist/hyper-literalist interpretation of scripture (while neglecting the critical passages). If they do not see something explicitly stated, they will not understand the message formed by the broad scriptures.

 

[TomL]

My how far you have fallen. Now it seems you don't even believe basic Greek grammar. You have gotten totally lost in the sauce dear Tom. So you completely reject the vocative case being used to address individuals despite thousands of years of Greek grammar rules? All because you want Thomas to have said "you are" when there is no justifiable way to prove that he did?

Reminder, I have two dozen Bibles on my side that disagree with you. Give up and salvage whatever credibility you can because you sacrificed a lot to argue against the vocative case being used to directly address people and your sacrifice was in vain. The vocative case is a real case and it's all over the Bible and cited in many Greek grammar books. I have quoted many things, you rejected them all, and obstinately pushing forward with your debunked talking points. Get your coffee, we're going to be here all day.

You have totally divorced reality. The Greek does not support you.

It refutes you

No bible supports you

Not a single one states Thomas was speaking to God (the Father)

They all say he was speaking to Jesus addressing him as his lord and his God

You have nothing but blind denial and an overwhelming desire to see what you want even when it is not there



Y

 

[101G]

Same situation here.
Can God be pierced? Or is this a metaphor?

he can while in flesh. this metaphor is a biblical fact. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." now this metaphor realized. read Isaiah chapter 53. and this "ARM in Flesh" is confirmed in scripture as the metaphor of FACT. when Sennacherib king of Assyria invaded Judah, with him was his army, which was describe as an "ARM" of FLESH. listen, 2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him:" 2 Chronicles 32:8 "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah."
this ARM of FLESH was the king "POWER", his fighting men.

101G

 

[TomL]

and no need to post all the scriptures which will be denied anyways.

they have been posted dozens of times already and the uni's remain deep in the waters of De Nile.

Very deep denial. Twilight zone level

 

[civic]

Very deep denial. Twilight zone level

yes night of the living dead.

 

[TomL]

Good morning, TomL

The word “God” is used in Scripture the same way we use it in our daily conversations.
For example:

Oh God, help me to find my child
God guided me to the place where I could serve better
I don't know your heart, but God knows.
God's willing, we'll arrive by mid morning.
God blessed me with a strong body.

In thousands and thousands of sentences like this, that we use everyday, we refer to God as a Person, not as an attribute or category.
This shouldn't come as a surprise, as religion is about a relationship between persons: between you and me, and between we and God.

That is a claim you need to support from scripture

Mere assertion prove nothing

 

[synergy]

Reminder, I have two dozen Bibles on my side that disagree with you.

Where are they?

Give up and salvage whatever credibility you can because you sacrificed a lot to argue against the vocative case being used to directly address people and your sacrifice was in vain. The vocative case is a real case and it's all over the Bible and cited in many Greek grammar books. I have quoted many things, you rejected them all, and obstinately pushing forward with your debunked talking points. Get your coffee, we're going to be here all day.

You've already ruined your credibility by running away from the fact that Θεὸς (in John 1:1) translates to God.

 

[101G]

The Unitarians seem to take a hyper-fundamentalist/hyper-literalist interpretation of scripture (while neglecting the critical passages). If they do not see something explicitly stated, they will not understand the message formed by the broad scriptures.

this is their downfall. they believe that the Lord Jesus is just the agent of God as a man. just as there was men savior before who relieved Israel from their Physical bondage. but their mistake is that the Lord Jesus relieved them from the cause of their Physical bondage... the cause, "SIN". so when the Lord Jesus didn't rout out the Romans, they were in disbelief... for they were looking for a savior from their Physical bondage, and not from their spiritual cause sin.

101G.

 

[mikesw]

I found this point very interesting about Jude 5–6 (ESV)
5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day.

Details about the divinity of Christ appear in unexpected places.

I guess to the Unitarians that Jesus appears to be a time traveler.

 

[civic]

I found this point very interesting about Jude 5–6 (ESV)
5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day.

Details about the divinity of Christ appear in unexpected places.

I guess to the Unitarians that Jesus appears to be a time traveler.

I mean c'mon lol it plainly says He was the PERSON who saved the people from the Egyptians. Yet we know that its God.

We have 2 choices

1- Jesus did deliver His people out of Egypt in the Old Testament like it says in Exodus. He is God/ YHWH
2- the Bible is not trustworthy and Jude was lying.

 

[Peterlag]

nope U did not understand your own answer. one word, "amalgamation" which you did not understand.

101G.

I did not ask an answer. I asked a question. If Jesus was already God. Then how did God exalt him to the position of Lord and Christ?

 

[mikesw]

I mean c'mon lol it plainly says He was the PERSON who saved the people from the Egyptians. Yet we know that its God.

We have 2 choices

1- Jesus did deliver His people out of Egypt in the Old Testament like it says in Exodus. He is God/ YHWH
2- the Bible is not trustworthy and Jude was lying.

hmm. really? Like that explicit mention of Jesus is any reason why a Unitarian should be convinced despite rejecting all other testimony of Christ's divinity? I mean like Jude is sort of vague on that point, isn't he?

 

[civic]

hmm. really? Like that explicit mention of Jesus is any reason why a Unitarian should be convinced despite rejecting all other testimony of Christ's divinity?

they find a "work around" for every verse that identifies Him as God or His pre existence in the OT.