Jesus denied being God

[Peterlag]

Catholicism is a little better than Protestantism in my honest assessment, but yes, they are good guides for what not to do or believe on a great number of things. One of them is that original sin is the natural state of every man, which is not how people are born and neither was Jesus. Let’s not forget Jesus believed people could go and sin no more and he said that people.

And, of course, you’re absolutely correct. Belief in what Jesus said to believe is the fastest to walk in the same spirit he walks in. He’s the vine and his God is the vine keeper. We are the branches. It doesn’t get much clearer than that picture Jesus gave us.

Boy just when I was really starting to like you and then you had to go a head and say the Catholics have something right. Now I don't know what to do. Maybe I will just start myself on fire and throw myself out in front of a Mack Truck.

Tell one thing the Catholics ever got correct.

 

[Runningman]

Sound like ye shall be as gods doctrine. The serpents lie

This really explains how utterly confused you are. You have assigned God’s very words to the devil and blamed the devil for it.

For the readers:

The serpent’s lie:

Genesis 3​

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:​

God’s truth:

Genesis 3​

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:​

What a train wreck. I doubt you’ll correct your error. Just leave it there unedited.

 

[Runningman]

Boy just when I was really starting to like you and then you had to go a head and say the Catholics have something right. Now I don't know what to do. Maybe I will just start myself on fire and throw myself out in front of a Mack Truck.

Tell one thing the Catholics ever got correct.

No don’t take it the wrong way. I am just saying if I had to pick one and there weren’t any other options I’d go with them. They seem more serious about abstinence from sin and confession, generally speaking. I like that because this is actually a major factor in the final judgment.

 

[Runningman]

Tell one thing the Catholics ever got correct.

Oh, and the Apostle’s creed isn’t Trinitarian.

I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

 

[Peterlag]

Oh, and the Apostle’s creed isn’t Trinitarian.

I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

I believe in God... yeah so does the devils. So let me rewrite this to the way I see it...
the Father almighty... which is who?
Creator of heaven and earth... which is who?
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord... which is who?
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit... which is who?
born of the Virgin Mary... which is who?
suffered under Pontius Pilate... which is who?
was crucified, died and was buried... which is who?
he descended into hell... which is who?
on the third day he rose again from the dead... which is who?
he ascended into heaven... which is who?
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty... which is who?
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead... which is who?

I believe in the Holy Spirit... which is who?
the holy catholic Church... which means what?
the communion of saints... which means what?
the forgiveness of sins... So do the devils.
the resurrection of the body... So do the devils.
and life everlasting... So do the devils.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The fact we have the biblical Jesus and Unitarians do not

Then please tell us one example of a specific behavior that shows that a Trinitarian does have the biblical Jesus while a Unitarian does not.
If you are unable to name one action, or behavior… then being “right” about the Trinity may be as trivial as winning a chess game.

 

[Peterlag]

The fact we have the biblical Jesus and Unitarians do not

It blows my mind everyday on how there can be so many who are 100 percent wrong and yet believe they are 100 percent right.

 

[mikesw]

It blows my mind everyday on how there can be so many who are 100 percent wrong and yet believe they are 100 percent right.

we are proven right until someone can make a sufficient argument against the Triune nature of the Godhead

 

[TomL]

It blows my mind everyday on how there can be so many who are 100 percent wrong and yet believe they are 100 percent right.

You are in that camp

 

[TomL]

Then please tell us one example of a specific behavior that shows that a Trinitarian does have the biblical Jesus while a Unitarian does not.
If you are unable to name one action, or behavior… then being “right” about the Trinity may be as trivial as winning a chess game.

View attachment 926

Its not a matter of action, It's a matter of what you believe.

John 1:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Hebrews 1:1–12 (KJV 1900) — 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

The above passages and their biblical context cannot fit into Unitarian doctrine

 

[TomL]

He's correct.

Nope you both are in error

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Its not a matter of action, It's a matter of what you believe.

No.
It is a matter of action, not a matter of what we believe.
What is the importance of debating whether Jesus is God or not, if we cannot recall ONE SINGLE ACTION that tells apart Trinitarians from Unitarians?
A debate on Circumcision, in this context, looks far more important !
At least, parents who believe in circumcision do something different to their kids … and you can see the results by looking at real penises.

So far, according to the responses received in this thread, the person who worships Jesus can be defined as the person who says that Jesus must be worshiped.

John 1:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Hebrews 1:1–12 (KJV 1900) — 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

The above passages and their biblical context cannot fit into Unitarian doctrine

Thanks for the passages, but it seems they are not leading you to do any thing different from what a Unitarian does.
I’m not debating the validity of the doctrine anymore. I’m refuting the idea that worshiping Jesus means something other than words.

 

[TomL]

No.
It is a matter of action, not a matter of what we believe.
What is the importance of debating whether Jesus is God or not, if we cannot recall ONE SINGLE ACTION that tells apart Trinitarians from Unitarians?
A debate on Circumcision, in this context, looks far more important !
At least, parents who believe in circumcision do something different to their kids … and you can see the results by looking at real penises.

So far, according to the responses received in this thread, the person who worships Jesus can be defined as the person who says that Jesus must be worshiped.


Thanks for the passages, but it seems they are not leading you to do any thing different from what a Unitarian does.
I’m not debating the validity of the doctrine anymore. I’m refuting the idea that worshiping Jesus means something other than words.

Sorry but you are in error

You want to make it about what you do rather than believe on the one who did

That is another gospel

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Sorry but you are in error

You want to make it about what you do rather than believe on the one who did

That is another gospel

No, my brother. You are confused.
Belief without a corresponding action is self-deception. A demon could speak or write about any biblical truth without a problem. A demon could defend Trinitarism as well as Unitarism… Calvinism as well as Arminism…

Jesus taught that The First and Most Comandment is to love God over all things. The second is to love our neighbor.
If we cannot recall one single action that shows we love God or we love our neighbors, we are no different from atheists.

So let me insist: what do you DO different from Unitarians, that shows you worship Jesus?

 

[Runningman]

It blows my mind everyday on how there can be so many who are 100 percent wrong and yet believe they are 100 percent right.

Belief doesn't require facts to exist, and facts don't necessarily change beliefs. When facts get in the way, they get changed, ignored, or even rejected.

Everyone has a god—some it's their belly, some it's themselves, and some it’s someone or something else. It's how we are as people.

I believe we need to separate the Scripture from feelings, opinions, creeds, and traditions, for they are not all necessarily the same thing. We should occasionally take inventory of the things we are saying and believing to see if it really aligns with the truth as revealed in the Bible. It takes time, patience, and devotion to sort it out, especially nowadays.

Even more so than ever before, there are so many lies in the world everywhere we look: the news, the Internet, social media, books, schools, video games, the church, and even the Bible isn't safe from lies. Propaganda has essentially infiltrated every single sector that can possibly influence opinion. There are so many versions and translations of the Bible, so many denominations, and some are clearly perverse. The state of affairs where we are—the very boots on the ground—is dismal at best.

Yes, many will absolutely be led astray despite their strong feelings, convictions, and good intentions to not be. Yet we persevere day and night, putting in the time, effort, and prayer to no personal profit. This is kingdom work, and yes, it does make a difference to someone. However, the return on investment for plowing rocky soil may very well be marginal.

 

[MTMattie]

Wow. These two unitarians have started to expose the weird doctrines. This was one of the big concerns I anticipated for people that deny the deity of Christ, especially in the face of all the verses that show it. They both share this idea of becoming like Jesus in his incarnation, as if everyone just reads what Jesus did and then they can do all that as part of daily living -- or the end goal of a daily lifestyle.
I've basic had to back off the WWJD concept (which I suppose I never fully embraced) since I can do next to nothing of what Jesus did. But I can seek to follow the love of God and love of one's neighbor
Purple texted edited in a bit late

 

[Runningman]

Wow. These two unitarians have started to expose the weird doctrines. This was one of the big concerns I anticipated for people that deny the deity of Christ, especially in the face of all the verses that show it. They both share this idea of becoming like Jesus in his incarnation, as if everyone just reads what Jesus did and then they can do all that as part of daily living -- or the end goal of a daily lifestyle.
I've basic had to back off the WWJD concept (which I suppose I never fully embraced) since I can do next to nothing of what Jesus did. But I can seek to follow the love of God and love of one's neighbor
Purple texted edited in a bit late

Sorry, but if you have misunderstood Jesus to be God then you're practicing idolatry and it's a sin. Scripture testifies the Father is the only true God. Yes, I am sure it's not your intention, but I assure you it's pardonable.

 

[MTMattie]

Boy just when I was really starting to like you and then you had to go a head and say the Catholics have something right. Now I don't know what to do. Maybe I will just start myself on fire and throw myself out in front of a Mack Truck.

Tell one thing the Catholics ever got correct.

They batiste in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[civic]

This really explains how utterly confused you are. You have assigned God’s very words to the devil and blamed the devil for it.

For the readers:

The serpent’s lie:

Genesis 3​

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:​

God’s truth:

Genesis 3​

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:​

What a train wreck. I doubt you’ll correct your error. Just leave it there unedited.

you really don't know your bible at all and twist scripture. You cannot tel the difference between Gods words and the devils. That say a lot about your doctrines and beliefs. You twist Gods word just lie the devil did in the garden and with Jesus in the wilderness.

Here let me help you out what the devil said, the serpent,

Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

And here: In John 10, Jesus cites Psalm 82:6 and repeats the statement that “you are gods.”

you think you can become like a god here on this earth. yikes.

hope this helps !!!

 

[TomL]

No, my brother. You are confused.
Belief without a corresponding action is self-deception. A demon could speak or write about any biblical truth without a problem. A demon could defend Trinitarism as well as Unitarism… Calvinism as well as Arminism…

Jesus taught that The First and Most Comandment is to love God over all things. The second is to love our neighbor.
If we cannot recall one single action that shows we love God or we love our neighbors, we are no different from atheists.

So let me insist: what do you DO different from Unitarians, that shows you worship Jesus?

Sorry no when i say believe I am not talking about just about head knowledge but entrusting yourself on the one who is the object of your faith

If you think the gospel is about the work you perform you have another gospel.