Jesus denied being God

[mikesw]

The worship is to glorify God and give him the honor due his name. Thomas and others worship Jesus without expectation to be blessed back by God due to this act. It is giving thanks in the way God asks for thanks. Otherwise, it is like the other 9 lepers in Luke 17

Luke 17
11 Now on his way to Jerusalem, Jesus traveled along the border between Samaria and Galilee. 12 As he was going into a village, ten men who had leprosy[a] met him. They stood at a distance 13 and called out in a loud voice, “Jesus, Master, have pity on us!”

14 When he saw them, he said, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And as they went, they were cleansed.

15 One of them, when he saw he was healed, came back, praising God in a loud voice. 16 He threw himself at Jesus’ feet and thanked him—and he was a Samaritan.

17 Jesus asked, “Were not all ten cleansed? Where are the other nine? 18 Has no one returned to give praise to God except this foreigner?” 19 Then he said to him, “Rise and go; your faith has made you well.”

Interestingly in this situation, the healed man is not going to the priests to praise God. He returns to Jesus's feet praising God. The man's instinct and gratefulness took him back to Jesus. The man did not have to declare Jesus Lord but likewise Jesus did not stop this man from falling at Jesus' feet.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

So you don't go to Jesus in prayer? We pray to Jesus.

Some Christians pray to Jesus.
Some pray to The Father.
Some pray to both.
Some pray to "God", without any further thinking or questioning of who they are addressing.

So, when you say "we", I am not sure which group of people you are referring to.

Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

I seem to remember asking you this before, you ignored it.

I have decided not to debate anymore on whether the doctrine of the Trinity is right or wrong.
People already know my position on the matter and how I support my views.
I have decided to focus in these threads on the practical relevance of such debate.

I will only say, to your question, that I find wonderful that you ask things to Jesus.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Do demons have a sacrifice to claim for salvation?

Huge difference. Christ died for humanity. Not demons. Demons don't have a place at the "table".

I think a demon could speak or write in eloquent, biblically-supported, convincing sermons or essays about Jesus sacrifice, salvation, grace, faith, etc.
We know of perverse people in all religions who confessed many things, including salvation by grace and the sacrifice of Jesus.

The question I am making is if worshiping Jesus means to say or write "I confess that Jesus is God".
What do you think?

 

[civic]

I praise and worship him. Singing, lifting my hands and praying to him, honoring his word, declaring his glory and confessing him as my lord and savior, testifying here before all as to his glory and godhood

Amen !!!

 

[mikesw]

I have decided not to debate anymore on whether the doctrine of the Trinity is right or wrong.
People already know my position on the matter and how I support my views.
I have decided to focus in these threads on the practical relevance of such debate.

I will only say, to your question, that I find wonderful that you ask things to Jesus.

The relevance is first in knowing the true Jesus. Also, many bad doctrines seem to accompany the denial of the Trinity. People even deny the divinity of Christ in the Godhead.
After misunderstanding the nature of the Godhead, the basis for justification becomes diluted, unclear, and undifferentiated. Other groups then claim to have equality of false gods and false religious "gurus." Christ is differentiated because he was raised from the dead to have victory over sin and death. None of these other so-called religious leaders have done that. Christ Jesus stands with a name above all names that people may come and worship him in spirit and truth. If someone has a message that is not truth, it leads to worship of the wrong direction.
Note that Pancho Frijoles does not respond to my posts any more.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Amen !!!

The only activity that our brother @TomL mentioned that a Christian Unitarian would not do, is to say or write that Jesus is God.
So my question is

What do you as Trinitarian do, which the Christian Unitarian does not do, that proves that you worship Jesus?

 

[TomL]

Thanks for your answer, TomL. I made the reply above without noticing you have answered my question.
My apologies.

In regard to your answer

1. You say you praise Jesus singing. Christian Unitarians also praise Jesus singing. So that is not exclusive of people who say they worship Jesus. Do you agree?
2. You say you praise Jesus lifting your hands. Well, not all Trinitarians lift their hands. So that is not required for worshiping Jesus.
3. You say you honor his word. Christian Unitarians also honor his word. So that is not exclusive of people who say they worship Jesus.
4. You say you declare his glory. Christian Unitarians also declare his glory. So that is not exclusive of people who say they worship Jesus
5. You say you confess Him as your Lord and Savior. Christian Unitarians also confess Him as their Lord and Savior. So that is not that is not exclusive of people who say they worship Jesus
6. You say you testify here, in the Forum, and before all, to his godhood. This is something Christian Unitarians don't do.

So, if you agree with me, the only thing that you and a Christian Unitarian make different is activity number 6.
Then, what does worshiping Jesus mean? To speak and write that He is God? Is that it?

No worship includes all those things

Unitarians rob Christ of his glory denying the fullness of what he is

 

[MTMattie]

Some Christians pray to Jesus.
Some pray to The Father.
Some pray to both.
Some pray to "God", without any further thinking or questioning of who they are addressing.

So, when you say "we", I am not sure which group of people you are referring to.

Lump me in with those who also talk to the Holy Spirit!

 

[mikesw]

The only activity that our brother @TomL mentioned that a Christian Unitarian would not do, is to say or write that Jesus is God.
So my question is

What do you as Trinitarian do, which the Christian Unitarian does not do, that proves that you worship Jesus?

Why should someone of Baha'i Faith care that Unitarians are noted as denying the testimony of the deity of Christ? Your concern is questionable.

 

[civic]

The only activity that our brother @TomL mentioned that a Christian Unitarian would not do, is to say or write that Jesus is God.
So my question is

What do you as Trinitarian do, which the Christian Unitarian does not do, that proves that you worship Jesus?

We do the following which is also done in heaven

1- Give Jesus all praise
2- Give Jesus all Glory
3- Give Jesus all Honor
4- Give Jesus all worship
5- Give Jesus all power
6- He is our all in all from beginning to end, the Master of our lives, we serve Him and God alone is worthy of these things, especially in heaven.

But we do this here on earth knowing it will be done in heaven.

So if one is not willing to do this while walking this earth, don't expect anything in the afterlife. This life prepares us for the one to come.

The question is who is your Master, Lord, your Everything, your All , who you live for , who you are a slave to ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[TomL]

Why should someone of Baha'i Faith care that Unitarians are noted as denying the testimony of the deity of Christ? Your concern is questionable.

I think Pedro wants to argue

 

[Runningman]

If I'm right. That there is no trinity. And that it's something the Catholics invented which is a false concept that they enforced by torturing and killing anyone who did not agree with them for 15 hundred years until folks started splitting away from them who were also all Catholic. If I'm right. Then yeah... the trinity folks do not know who God is or who Jesus was or who the resurrected Christ is and have no clue what the spirit is. So I often wonder what do they consider is Christianity. It's an honest question. When they ask me trinity questions that make no sense to me is when they say I'm not answering questions. Or that I'm ignoring the question. When I ask a question that makes no sense to them I get crickets. Well, I did not ask the question to them. I asked it to @Runningman

And none answered your question it seems. I think they really don't know how to answer it.

 

[Runningman]

THUS SAYS PAUL ..................... From Ephesians 2

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision “ by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands—

remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR;

for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.


So, the answer is no, for me

Paul went around the Roman empire telling Christians they will be judged by what they do. Also a word from John.

1 John 3​

7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.​

​

Romans 2​

1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God.​

​

Galatians 5​

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.​

​

1 Corinthians 6​

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. ​

​

2 Corinthians 5​

10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.​

​

And much more... but let's just begin with Paul. If you think you can live in unrepentant sin you will be greatly, and terribly, humbled at your judgement regardless of if you're a believer or not.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

We do the following which is also done in heaven

1- Give Jesus all praise
2- Give Jesus all Glory
3- Give Jesus all Honor
4- Give Jesus all worship
5- Give Jesus all power
6- He is our all in all from beginning to end, the Master of our lives, we serve Him and God alone is worthy of these things, especially in heaven.

Could you please specify which specific actions you undertake or have undertaken to give Jesus all praise, all glory, all honor, all power?
To answer, I beg you to think in anything you do since you wake up in the morning until you go to sleep at night... or anything you have done since since you met Christ the first time until today.

I'm asking this question because, in ancient times, for many cultures, to worship a god meant to take specific actions like kneeling down, offering inciense, killing animals as holocausts, praying, singing and dancing, abstaining from work, etc. It also included, and very importantly, obeying everything the god commanded.

In these times, and specifically in your personal life, what do you do, specifically, to worship Jesus?

The question is who is your Master, Lord, your Everything, your All , who you live for , who you are a slave to ?

God.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Lump me in with those who also talk to the Holy Spirit!

So, my friend, when you said "we", did you refer to a specific group of Christians, and not to all Christians?

 

[MTMattie]

We do the following which is also done in heaven

1- Give Jesus all praise
2- Give Jesus all Glory
3- Give Jesus all Honor
4- Give Jesus all worship
5- Give Jesus all power
6- He is our all in all from beginning to end, the Master of our lives, we serve Him and God alone is worthy of these things, especially in heaven.

But we do this here on earth knowing it will be done in heaven.

So if one is not willing to do this while walking this earth, don't expect anything in the afterlife. This life prepares us for the one to come.

The question is who is your Master, Lord, your Everything, your All , who you live for , who you are a slave to ?

hope this helps !!!

AND most important. Give Him our thanks.

 

[TomL]

And none answered your question it seems. I think they really don't know how to answer it.

False claim

I answered him, and he is not correct neither are you

 

[praise_yeshua]

And none answered your question it seems. I think they really don't know how to answer it.

Or tired of answering it to only have it "dismissed" without comment.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So, my friend, when you said "we", did you refer to a specific group of Christians, and not to all Christians?

Many people claim to be Christian.

You follow the Father... right? The Father is your only Master right?

You have no meaningful appeal to a word that exalts Christ. To you, "Christian" is a misnomer. It is only a means to an end. You don't really exalt Christ above all things in heaven and earth.

 

[civic]

AND most important. Give Him our thanks.

Amen