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FreeInChrist
Active Member
Have you figured out which of @Darby 's is correct?
Dyophysitism is the position that Jesus is one person of one substance but with two different natures: one divine and one human. This term is from the Greek duo for “two” and physis for “nature.”
Miaphysitism is the position that Jesus is one person of one substance with only one, fully integrated nature that is both fully human and fully divine. This term is from the Greek mia for “one” and physis for “nature.”
You do realize that your diminishing Jesus to the inability to be your savior? YES YOU ARE>
amazing grace
Active Member
I didn't quote the whole verse.It depends on which biblical translation you read.
I especially like NLT For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
and Berean Standard For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.
Not to forget
KJV says Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
NKJV says For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Amplified says For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].
American Standard for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
English Revised for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Webers For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Literal Standard because in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,
Youngs Literal because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Douay Rheims For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally;
Lamsa For in him is embodied all the fulness of the Godhead.
And 3 or 4 more.
You really should see them all befor making your mind up like this
Colossians 2:9 - Alive in Christ
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.biblehub.com
Yes, I have read them all and although they use different wordings; the meaning remains the same.
. . to the fullest extent God dwelt in Christ's body which carries the same meaning at Colossians 1:19 and also carries the same meaning as 2 Cor. 5:19, i.e. God was in Christ . . .
Because the Spirit of God dwells in Christ bodily (in the body of Christ/in Christ's body)to the fullest extent for he was given the spirit without measure (John 3:37); it doesn't make hims God . . .
Paul prays for us, the believers who make up the church, the body of Christ - to also be filled with all the fullness of God.
. . . .and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. . . [Eph. 3:19]
According to scripture, we are to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
YES and if you read enough verses you will know He is God the Son.
amazing grace
Active Member
I have read plenty of scripture, many times in fact, and I have yet to find that Jesus is God the Son. The phrase/term 'God the Son' is not found in any translation of any Bible or at least I haven't found one and I'm pretty sure if anyone knew of such a translation; it would have been posted long before now.
Runningman
Active Member
Ah, now you've changed it completely. Rather than Jesus being "in a triune Godhead" now you're saying the Deity is in him. That's something I entirely agree with and what the Bible says too. I can work with that. The fact that the Deity is in Jesus and others isn't a metric by which one can say that Jesus is God without consequently saying others are God.
Ephesians 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Those are interesting takes. How about how Jesus isn't God at all? Whether he has two natures is kinda a moot point. Jesus could have a million different natures, but he can never be the same person God.
Will you define who or what God is in your view? I say God is a singular person known as the Father. How about you?
Runningman
Active Member
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Well, I can say nothing that will help you to the truth.
I will not continue to try.
Be blessed
Yes, and that is truly a shame. I think that one who does not accept the truth that Jesus is God does not truly have the faith that saves.
John began his gospel with the declaration that Jesus was God. The Word was God and the Word became Jesus. So no matter your thinking and understanding of the concept of the Trinity, clearly Jesus the Son was God.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Why? Simply because I do not think your Jesus is the Immanuel that was prophesized in Isaiah 7:14 and Matt 1:23.
I firmly believe what Jack Cottrell says below and this IS my Jesus.
nkjv
John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
berean standard
John 14:6-7
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."
kjv
John 14:6-7
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
niv
JOHN 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
berean standard
JOHN 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.
Never Thirsty
Do I have to believe Jesus is God to be saved?
Discover the answer to the question do I have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved? You will learn that Jesus said yes!
www.neverthirsty.org
Therefore, a person must believe that 1) Jesus did everything necessary for our sins to be forgiven, 2) He was resurrected and 3) Jesus is God. The gospels and the writings of the apostles all assume that Christ was and is God. Searching For God will explain exactly what a person must believe in order to go to heaven.
@Jim
Jack Cottrell
The bottom line is this: a non-divine Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. A final reason why saving faith must include belief that Jesus is God is this: denying that Jesus is God is denying the true nature of the salvation he has earned for us. The key element in that salvation is forgiveness of sins (i.e., justification).
FWIW I tagged @Jim here because in case you do not know who Jack Cottrell is/was, he can help you along.
Everlasting Truths
Do I Have to Believe Jesus is God to be Saved?
Jesus claimed to be God. The New Testament claims Jesus is God. The early church believed Jesus is God. Jesus is God. The Deity of Jesus is one of several most important truths in all of Christiani…
everlastingtruths.com
John 20:31 says eternal life comes through believing Jesus is God the Son. "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." These verses plainly declare that believing the Deity of Jesus is essential for salvation.
Truth Saves https://truthsaves.org/articles/believe-that-jesus-is-god/
In Exodus 3:14, God appeared to Moses and said “I Am that I Am.” I think it is no coincidence that Jesus picks up these last three words in saying “if you do not believe that I am.” The Jews certainly understood who the “I Am” was. And the Jews also understood that Jesus had made Himself equal with God (John 5: 17-18). We find later in this same passage that when Jesus used these words a second time (before Abraham was, I Am), the Jews sought to stone Him (John 8:58-59). And John lets us know the power in these words in John 18:5 where at the utterance of these two words, those who came to apprehend Him in the garden suddenly found themselves on the ground. So, I conclude that Jesus is saying that we must believe that Jesus is the I Am or we will die in our sins. To deny this truth about Christ is to deny the witness of the Holy Spirit which I see as the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, leaving us with unforgivable sin. For this reason, I believe that the church down through the ages has been right in holding that this is one of those doctrines such that if one denies it, they stand outside of the faith and are not part of the shared life of Christ that He offers to those who believe in His Name.
I know this is a hard saying. I do not reach this conclusion lightly. I am very tolerant of a wide range of beliefs within the unity of the Spirit of God. And I believe in practicing grace to those who I see standing outside of the life of Christ. But grace cannot overshadow my concern for your friend and His eternal state. I cannot tell your friend that all is well when I read Scripture as saying that all is not well.
21. One Must Believe Jesus Is God’s Son to Be Saved
From the moment that Adam and Eve sinned in the beginning, God began to reveal His plan to save man from his sins. His plan centered around the sending of His Son to pay the ultimate price, by sacrificing Himself on the cross in our place and bearing all of our sins upon Himself (John 3:16...
pblcoc.org
One Must Believe Jesus Is God’s Son to Be Saved
You choose not to believe in the Divinity of Christ. Fine. That is your choice. That is what free will allows you to do.
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FreeInChrist
Active Member
@Jim
I made a reply to @Runningman and in it I posted a link to Jack Cottrell...
He made a very profound statement that I have been seeing more and more on here and also in support of @civic 's statement of
"believing in another jesus is the same category as believing in another gospel- neither one will save anyone from their sins."
Here is what he said... and I well know who I might here from that is not a Jack supporter, LOL but I fully agree with this,
Jack Cottrell
The bottom line is this: a non-divine Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. A final reason why saving faith must include belief that Jesus is God is this: denying that Jesus is God is denying the true nature of the salvation he has earned for us.
amazing grace
Active Member
amazing grace
Active Member
Honestly, you cannot know the state of my salvation . . . no one can - that knowledge is between me and my heavenly Father and my Lord Jesus Christ.
Secondly, there is no verse which says one must believe in the Trinity to be saved. There is no verse which states one must believe Jesus is God to be saved. The bottom line of faith is who are you placing your trust in? I place my trust in the only begotten Son of God, the Messiah whom God sent to be the Savior of the world (John 4:42).
John began his gospel with the word which was in the beginning, the word which was with God and the word which was God' (God being used in an adjective because of the absence of the definite article before God) - the word was the full expression of God and that full expression of God became flesh and dwelt among us. . . the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. God didn't come in the flesh . . . Jesus came in the flesh, another way of saying he was a human being. And the author of John even gives a purpose statement - the purpose for which he presented this gospel -
but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
amazing grace
Active Member
I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. . . . . Where is 'whoever confesses the Son is God'?
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Where is 'whoever confesses the Son is God'?
SHOW me where we should confess Jesus is God for salvation. It's a lie . . .
I can know the state of a person who does not believe in God. If you do not believe John, chapter 1, and believe that it affirms the truth that the Word that became Jesus is God, then I do not know what you mean when you say that you believe in God.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Boy.... you sure are stuck on the T word.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I never said you should confess it.... just believe.
Some Bible translations that tell the truth
nkjv
John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
berean standard
John 14:6-7
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."
kjv
John 14:6-7
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Do not answer this..... ye know Him and have seen Him..... What do you think this is saying,,,,.. Jesus is telling them
because they have seen himself they have seen the Father...ERGO... Jesus is God.
niv
JOHN 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
berean standard
JOHN 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.
amazing grace
Active Member
whoaaa - who said they don't believe in God?
Who said they don't believe John 1? The truth is - I do not believe your interpretation or understanding of John 1. John says the word became flesh.
I believe in the Shema “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deut. 6:4) Go ahead and say "I do too" NOPE you don't . . you believe in 3 persons in one God which is not biblical.
I am in agreement with Jesus in Mark 12:29 where he repeats the Shema being the first and great commandment.
I am in agreement with Jesus about his Father being the only true God (John 17:3).
FreeInChrist
Active Member
YES IT IS. You have been given scripture adnauseum that proves what we believe, but by your own words and own choice you twist it to being not understandable.
Joh 1:1 kjv In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
First you have no idea when the beginning here was.
Then you have no idea who the Word was. Want a hint?
And you have no idea that when the Word was with God , both being Spirit beings.
Here is a biggie....
Do you have any idea what the Word became?
Or Do you have any idea how that happened?
Or Do you know why it happened?
Last, Do you know why they talk so much about the incarnation of Jesus?
amazing grace
Active Member
I can't place my trust nor believe in something that is illogical, nonsensical and irrational.
Yep, Jesus repeatedly told them who he was . . . In your law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself and the Father who sent me bears witness about me (two people - the Father, the only true God and Jesus, whom you say is God = 2 gods) . . .
Where is your Father? You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me you would know my Father also. (Saying God was his Father makes Jesus God's Son aka the Son of God aka the Messiah ) I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he, (the Son of God, the Messiah) you will die in your sins.
John 14:1 . . 'Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.' (ALSO ALSO ALSO in addition to . . . you have 2 gods);
John 14:6b .... 'No one comes to the Father except through me' (again distinguishes himself from God the Father) . . .
John 14:7 'If you had KNOWN me, you would have KNOWN my Father also. From now on you KNOW him and have seen him . . . Then what Jesus said to Philip . . . 'Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.' and the "seeing" is all in the sense of KNOWING - which is what Jesus said in John 14:7a. Didn't Jesus come to reveal the Father, to declare and make known the Father (John 1:18)? All this means is Jesus so fully and clearly demonstrated God's character that when one looked at Jesus, it was as if you were looking at the Father.
As for your interpretations of John 1:18 ---- manuscript evidence is divided. IOW, verdict is still out as to the reading of John 1:18.
I don't think we should not collapse God the Father and His Messiah into one being.
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