Jesus denied being God

[TomL]

Nobody has been able to help me with a question I have and so I would like to ask you if you might be able to cause me to understand. If you believe there's a trinity and therefore you don't know who God is. And you don't know who Jesus is. And you don't have a clue how to walk and live in the spirit. Then what is the lifestyle that they call Christian?

What an absurd comment.

You merely assumed your view that if you believe in the trinity you do not know who God is, who Jesus is, who the Holy Spirit is.

Hello you are begging the question

 

[Studyman]

I invite you to reread what I wrote

You ignored these verses where Jesus is called God

John 1:1 (NASB 2020) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Yes, Jesus is the Word of God, His Father.

John 17: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which "thou gavest me" out of the world: thine they were, and "thou gavest them me"; and they have kept "thy word".

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever "thou hast given me" are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words "which thou gavest me"; (Word of God) and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that "thou didst send me".

I believe that the God and Father of the Lord's Christ sent Him to be my Priest, Savior and Lord. But there are many "who come in Christ's Name" that doesn't believe His Father sent Him, rather, they teach Jesus was the Father who glorified Himself.

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 20: 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, "that ye might believe" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

He is truly my Priest, Lord and Savior, and is mediating between His Father and me even to this day. And I know John was written, inspired by God that I might understand and believe that Jesus "IS THE SON OF GOD", who wants me to know eternal life, as HE Himself tells me:

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, "and" Jesus Christ, whom "thou hast sent".

I don't think Pancho ignored any of these Inspired Words of Scripture. But it seems you are trying very hard to get others to ignore these Words of God's Son.

Titus 2:13 (NASB 2020) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Titus 2: 11 For the grace of God "that bringeth salvation" hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, "we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world";

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God "and" our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Was it not the God and Father of the Lord's Christ who sent to us our Lord and Savior, our Salvation?

Acts 4: 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, "whom ye crucified", whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: "for there is none other name" under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 2020) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

(NASB) 2 Pet.1: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus "our Lord" ;

(KJV) 2 Peter1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God "and" our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (Whom this same God has sent to us)

The new age NASB recently placed a comma where it doesn't exist in many older translations, including it's own older translations. You can see this for yourself.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 2020) — 6 For a Child will be born to us, a "Son will be given to us"; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Who gives us His Son to be a Lord and Savior, and Head of God's Church on earth? Shall I believe the Words of the Lord's Christ in this matter? Of shall I listen to the "other voice" in the garden God placed me in?

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 2020) — 8 But regarding the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE SCEPTER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

It seems important to consider all of what is written. Here, let me post for you what is actually written.

Heb. 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said "he" at any time, Thou art my Son, this day "have "I" begotten thee"? And again, I will be to him "a Father", and he shall be to me "a Son"?

6 And again, when "he bringeth" in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the "angels of God" worship him. (The Son)

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; "therefore God", even thy God, "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Truly I believe Hebrews, and also I believe that God, my God and Jesus' God sent Him as a Savior of the world.

I am happy to discuss with you the other Scriptures you posted, but the post is getting too long. I don't think Pancho is ignoring any of these Scriptures, and neither do I. But they don't say what you attribute to them, in my view.

 

[MTMattie]

VERSES IN WHICH BOTH JESUS CHRIST AND THE FATHER ARE MENTIONED, AND GIVE THE TITLE "GOD" TO THE FATHER ONLY

1. John 8:54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’;
2. John 17:1,3 Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, so that the Son may glorify You, ...And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
3. John 20:17 Jesus *said to her... go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”
4. Romans 1: 7 "to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
5. Romans 15:16 "so that with one purpose and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
6. Romans 15:8 "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
7. 1 Corinthians 1:3 yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
8. 1 Corinthians 8:6 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
9. 2 Corinthians 1:2 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
10. 2 Corinthians 1:3 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through human agency, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
11. Galatians 1:1 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,
12. Galatians 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
13. Ephesians 1:2 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ
14. Ephesians 1:3 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.
15. Ephesians 5.20 always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to our God and Father;
16. Ephesians 6:23 Peace be to the brothers and sisters, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
17. Philippians 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
18. Philippians 2:11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
19. Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brothers and sisters in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.
20. Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you
21. 1 Thes 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.
22. 1 Thes 1:3 constantly keeping in mind your work of faith and labor of love and perseverance of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father,
23. 2 Thes 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
24. 2 Thes 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
25. 2 Thes 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace,
26. 1 Timothy 1:2 To Timothy, my true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
27. 2 Timothy 1:2 To Timothy, my beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
28. Titus 1:4 To Titus, my true son in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
29. Philemon 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
30. 1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
31. 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
32. 1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves the child born of Him
33. 2 John 1:3 Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love
34. 2 John 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not remain in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who remains in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
35. Jude 1:1 Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ:

VERSES IN WHICH BOTH JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE MENTIONED, AND GIVE THE TITLE "GOD" FOR BOTH OF THEM

Not found

VERSES IN WHICH BOTH JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE MENTIONED, AND GIVE THE TITLE "GOD" TO JESUS ONLY

Not found.

FINAL RESULTS:
Among the 35 verses in which Jesus and The Father are mentioned in the same sentence, and the title "God" is used,

• 35 (100%) give the title "God" only to The Father
• 0 (0%) give the title "God" to both of them
• 0 (0%) give the title "God" only to Jesus

Thank you for the references.

Is there anywhere in the bible that Jesus is asked directly if he is God?

There are references in the 4 Gospels to His being God, but, they are vague, I grant you.

Colossians 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Shall we call this possession???????..... What other description can you offer.?

And what about throughout the gospels, both before and after Jesus' resurrection, His disciples heard Him speak of Himself as God, and they worshipped Him as such (Matthew 14:33; 28:9; John 20:28).

Jesus did not stop the disciples from worshipping Him. He accepted their worship. The disciples knew about the Mosaic law's punishment for the sin of blasphemy, but this didn't give them any qualms about worshipping Jesus as Lord.

Moving on in the New Testament, Paul affirms Jesus as God (Titus 2:13).looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 1:3 says, "He {Jesus] is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power." God the Father also called Jesus God: "of the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom'"

(Hebrews 1:8, quoting Psalm 45:6; see also Matthew 3:16–17). Through His direct words, actions, and His resurrection, Jesus Himself shows us that He is God incarnate.

 

[MTMattie]

I did not.
It is just that none of the verses you quoted present the name “Christ” (or Jesus Christ), the name “Father” and the title “God” in the same sentence, so that we could see which of the two (or if the two of them) got the title “God”.
This is important because the inspired author had these two Persons next to each other, wanted to use the term “God” and had a FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY to assign such title to one, or the other, or to the two of them.
So, Trinitarians should explain why Jesus and the inspired authors take the same decision, over and over and over, on whom to call God.

Suppose that there were a controversy on whether Joe Biden, his son (Hunter Biden), or both of them, are the President of the US
And then, you discover that in 100% of the statements in which Joe Biden and his son are mentioned, the statement says “Greetings from President Joe Biden and from his son Hunter Biden” . Wouldn’t that be clear enough to indicate who is the President?

Not when the puppet master is pulling the strings and now Jill is running some of the policy meetings.

 

[civic]

That is the idiocy of what you pretend. You pretend that Jesus is a distinct god from the Shema. Jesus is divinity in that Godhead. When you fail to recognize the testimony of scripture as well as the Trinitarian reconciliation of details of scripture, you really have been led far astray.

Yes it's only said of Christ that all the fulness of Deity dwells in Him, not us. A distinction with a difference. And a pill they cannot swallow without choking on it.

 

[Runningman]

Yes it's only said of Christ that all the fulness of Deity dwells in Him, not us. A distinction with a difference. And a pill they cannot swallow without choking on it.

Um... Actually, contrary to what you think, we love it when you mention that the fullness of the deity dwelling in him because it gives us a chance to show we can have the same thing.

It's ironic that the pill you believe we choke on is actually a stumbling block to you.

Behold, Scripture... will you reject it again today?

Ephesians 3
19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

[civic]

Um... Actually, contrary to what you think, we love it when you mention that the fullness of the deity dwelling in him because it gives us a chance to show we can have the same thing.

It's ironic that the pill you believe we choke on is actually a stumbling block to you.

Behold, Scripture... will you reject it again today?

Ephesians 3
19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

ye shall be gods how ironic that you would compare yourself as a sinner to the Holy One, the One who is called Good, the Good Shepherd, The Righteous One, God manifest in the flesh, our Great God and Savior, Lord and Savior, etc.........

 

[Runningman]

ye shall be gods how ironic that you would compare yourself as a sinner to the Holy One, the One who is called Good, the Good Shepherd, The Righteous One, God manifest in the flesh, our Great God and Savior, Lord and Savior, etc.........

Have you ever read the Bible before? The Bible compares the sons of God to God a lot and even says we will be like the Father.

1 John 3
1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[civic]

Have you ever read the Bible before? The Bible compares the sons of God to God a lot and even says we will be like the Father.

1 John 3
1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

we will be like Him having glorified new bodies that are incorruptible.

next fallacy

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Our friend @TomL brings some verses thinking that they say that Jesus is God.
Some of them have nothing to do with the deity of Jesus. Some of them have been source of debate.
That's why I consider crucial to examine the verses in which the two Persons that both Trinitarians and Unitarians regard as independent Minds, are presented together, and one of them is assigned the title "God". In 100% of these verses, the title "God" is assigned only to the Father.

****

Here is a very short comment on each of the verses

John 1:1 (NASB 2020) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
COMMENT: Poetic personification. The Word is not a Person, just as The Wisdom, The Light, The Spirit or the Love of God are not persons. They are personified poetically here to suit the mindset of a Greek audience, familiar with the concept of Logos.

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
COMMENT: "My Lord" is directed to Jesus, the Resurrected Master while "My God" is directed to He who raised Him from dead. Jesus had made very clear, just few days before, upon his resurrection, that the same God of the apostles was also his God (John 20:17)

Titus 2:13 (NASB 2020) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
COMMENT: Mistranslation. The verse should have said "our great God and our Savior, Christ Jesus" as this is the way Paul does it everywhere. I'm not alone here. Scholars in charge of about 13 translations in English do it that way.

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 2020) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
COMMENT: Mistranslation. It should read "Our God and our Savior, Jesus Christ" as in the many other instances of similar salutations . Many translations render this differently. For example King James: "...through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 2020) — 6 For a Child will be born to us, a Son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
COMMENT: It was extremely common for Hebrew babies to bear the name of God in his names. There are dozens of examples. Furthermore, if Jesus were Mighty God, then it could be argued He is also "Eternal Father".

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 2020) — 8 But regarding the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE SCEPTER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
COMMENT: The whole Psalm quoted is directed to David and his seed (the Messiah). The particle "O God" is an interjection. What the author of Hebrews is focusing is on the permanent nature of the kingdom of the Messiah, and not in the "O God" interjection.

John 1:18 (NASB 2020) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son, who is in the arms of the Father, He has explained Him.
COMMENT: Mistranslation. Many other translations render it as it should be. For example, King James: "No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

1 John 5:20 (NASB 2020) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
COMMENT: Mistranslation. The author of 1 John makes the distinction between God and his Son Jesus Christ everywhere.

 

[Runningman]

we will be like Him having glorified new bodies that are incorruptible.

next fallacy

More. There are dozens of examples like this.

Ephesians 4
23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[civic]

More. There are dozens of examples like this.

Ephesians 4
23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Jesus didn't have any new man to take off and put on.

you are not like Him even though you claim to be just like Him. its blasphemous.

next fallacy

 

[Runningman]

Jesus didn't have any new man to take off and put on.

you are not like Him even though you claim to be just like Him. its blasphemous.

next fallacy

So what do we have here so far. We have Jesus and Christians being filled with the fullness of the Deity. We have Jesus and Christians who are said to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. When the Father shall appear, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him how He is.

Want to keep going? I think you aren't ready for the truth since it seems to be blasphemy to you.

Matthew 11
6And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

 

[MTMattie]

ye shall be gods how ironic that you would compare yourself as a sinner to the Holy One, the One who is called Good, the Good Shepherd, The Righteous One, God manifest in the flesh, our Great God and Savior, Lord and Savior, etc.........

Wouldn't that mean they also can save themselves?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Not if you had statements saying Hunter was president

We indeed have

• few statements saying Hunter is president, four of them challenged by other journalists as errors
• an overwhelming number of statements saying that his father Joe is president,
• statements that say that "Our President is Only One", including the Constitution!
• statements of Hunter himself referring to Joe Biden as "My President",
• a recording of Hunter telling Joe "Dad, you are the only and true President, and I am your son"

So, we have a special situation, don't we?

That's why, I insist, it is useful to examine what the statements say when Joe and Hunter Biden are put together in the same sentence, and the title "President" is used.

 

[civic]

So what do we have here so far. We have Jesus and Christians being filled with the fullness of the Deity. We have Jesus and Christians who are said to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. When the Father shall appear, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him how He is.

Want to keep going? I think you aren't ready for the truth since it seems to be blasphemy to you.

Matthew 11
6And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

nowhere does the Bible once say :

believers are have all the fullness of Deity dwelling in them, its only said of Christ 2 times by Paul in Col 1:19; 2:9.

next fallacy

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

What an absurd comment.

You merely assumed your view that if you believe in the trinity you do not know who God is, who Jesus is, who the Holy Spirit is.

Hello you are begging the question

I support you 100% on this, TomL.
I openly an firmly reject Peterlag's prejudices.

The person who knows God and who knows Jesus is the one who love his brothers.

 

[civic]

Wouldn't that mean they also can save themselves?

yes they have need of salvation

 

[Runningman]

nowhere does the Bible once say :

believers are have all the fullness of Deity dwelling in them, its only said of Christ 2 times by Paul in Col 1:19; 2:9.

next fallacy

The Deity is God. Yes? The fullness of the God is the fullness of the Deity. Same exact concept.

Ephesians 3
19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

[Peterlag]

What an absurd comment.

You merely assumed your view that if you believe in the trinity you do not know who God is, who Jesus is, who the Holy Spirit is.

Hello you are begging the question

If you believe Jesus is God and he is not. Then you don't know who he is.
If you believe God is Jesus and He is not. Then you don't know who He is.
If you think the spirit is part of a God and that it's a person. Then you don't know how to walk in the spirit.

So my question is what is your religion about? Do you live your life trying to be good so God will like you? Do you try to believe there's a God so you can be a Christian? I honestly don't know what you have for what you call a Christian lifestyle.