Jesus denied being God

[Complete]

The Bible doesn't say God became incarnate among humanity. Wouldn't it be a philosophy that you hold that since the Bible never even uses the word for incarnation that you have made a philosophy about it?

The Bible says "the Son of Man" descended from heaven (John 3:13, John 6:62.) Human beings, including Jesus, are called ‘son of man’ specifically to distinguish them from God, who is not the ‘son of man’ (Number 23:19, Hosea 11:9) yet the Bible describes the son of man as a human (Job 25:6; Psalms 8:4; Psalms 144:3; Psalms 146:3; Isaiah 51:12, etc.)

Bottom line is that humans didn't literally pre-exist in heaven then they can't be incarnated. The point is Jesus pre-existed in God's foreknowledge. He was born as a human on earth just like everyone else.

'Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave Himself for us,
that He might redeem us from all iniquity,
and purify unto Himself a peculiar people,
zealous of good works.
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority.
Let no man despise thee.'
(Tit 2:13-15)

Hello @Runningman,

God took the form of man in order to redeem. To become the Kinsman Redeemer, whom under law had the right to redeem. A body was prepared for Him ( Hebrews 10:5).

The Lord Jesus Christ was born of God, God's only begotten Son. Son of God and Son of Man. Born of a woman as foretold. He was not a man prior to birth, but He became a man via conception of the Spirit and birth. He remains a man in heaven at God's right hand.

'Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself:
handle me, and see;
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.'
(Luk 24:39)

'Then saith He to Thomas,
Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands;
and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side:
and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto Him,
"My Lord and my God."
Jesus saith unto him, "Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed:
blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. ... "
(Joh 20:27-29)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

Great Scripture. I love that.

Question, did you observe in Philippians 2:11 that when everyone is bowing "at the name of Jesus" that no one is getting glory except the Father?

'That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.'
(Php 2:10-11)

Hello @Runningman,

Of course!! The Holy Spirit, and The Son, emanate from the Father, they do His will. They are manifestations of Himself.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Runningman]

'Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave Himself for us,
that He might redeem us from all iniquity,
and purify unto Himself a peculiar people,
zealous of good works.
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority.
Let no man despise thee.'
(Tit 2:13-15)

Hello @Runningman,

God took the form of man in order to redeem. To become the Kinsman Redeemer, whom under law had the right to redeem. A body was prepared for Him ( Hebrews 10:5).

The Lord Jesus Christ was born of God, God's only begotten Son. Son of God and Son of Man. Born of a woman as foretold. He was not a man prior to birth, but He became a man via conception of the Spirit and birth. He remains a man in heaven at God's right hand.

'Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself:
handle me, and see;
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.'
(Luk 24:39)

'Then saith He to Thomas,
Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands;
and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side:
and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto Him,
"My Lord and my God."
Jesus saith unto him, "Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed:
blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. ... "
(Joh 20:27-29)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

If he was not a man prior to birth then why did he say the son of man descended from heaven in John 3:13, John 6:62? Doesn't the term "son of man" refer to humans? Isn't God not the son of man as the Scriptures states?

Does God require being fallible human in order to redeem? You know, God can actually redeem without the need of people. Scripture says He doesn't need people nor desires sacrifice. Why, then, would there be need of an alleged incarnation?

Acts 17
24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

Hebrews 10
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

 

[Runningman]

Nah. I would never guess your doctrine from the scriptures. You seem to use half of scripture and reject the rest.
You say humans don't pre-exist. That is obvious. If the humanity of Jesus pre-existed... well that would be stupid to think since he was born of Mary. That does not mean, for lack of other terms, his spirit of Son of God did not pre-exist. God is eternal in existence. That is the way scripture is read consistently. Jesus is both the Son of Man and Son of God. In Dan 7:13 (as we again bring this forth), the verse mentions Jesus as being like a son of man. Uh the first point is that this reflects his humanity but also differentiates him from that since he is only "like a son of man." Then as we see attested by the High Priest, Jesus claim to Dan 7:13 was appearing as blasphemy in the broader context of Dan 7. You lose every time you post here.

If does not even help to post responses to you since you are unwilling to learn from them. I doubt you even have anything to collaborate your interpretation. Does Peterlag even hold to an adoptionist view?

As to your grand argument of "incarnate" not being in the Bible, the word "Bible" is not in the Bible either. Words do not have to be in scripture for us to summarize doctrines. The philosophy issue is not about words used but is about your presupposition that God cannot intervene in the world through being born among humanity. Inasmuch as I recall, you have not explained why God would lack this ability.

Your doctrines are not intuitive, nor do they follow conventional reasoning. For example, in your belief system, Jesus is not actually a begotten Son but is rather an eternal being who has always existed. Therefore, he is not offspring, regardless of what the Bible says. Additionally, you believe God's Word is a person who is both God and with God. Rather than considering this as two Gods, you refuse to count numbers and instead insist there is just one God. Despite the Bible never describing God as a three-person being, you still believe that’s who God is, even though Jesus never claimed to be God, denied it on more than one occasion, never said or did anything in the Old Testament, and is not immortal, omniscient, or omnipotent. I would also add that many Trinitarians are on record saying the Trinity is a mystery. That means they confess they don’t understand it. If your leaders don’t understand it, how could you?

There are way too many logical fallacies and inconsistencies in Trinitarianism. Despite Jesus being a son of God, when others are the son of God you must apply a different standard to them and say they are not God. So what we have is Jesus, the Son of God who did miracles because God anointed and empowered him just like others who did the same miracles as him. Even Peter walked on water.

Daniel 7 proves that Jesus is one from among the people because the kingdom belongs to the people. God nor the son of man hold exclusive sovereignty over it. Like it or not... it says what it says.

Daniel 7
18But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
22Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
27And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[Runningman]

'That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.'
(Php 2:10-11)

Hello @Runningman,

Of course!! The Holy Spirit, and The Son, emanate from the Father, they do His will. They are manifestations of Himself.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

So John the Baptist is God according to that reasoning?

John 1
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

 

[Complete]

If he was not a man prior to birth then why did he say the son of man descended from heaven in John 3:13, John 6:62? Doesn't the term "son of man" refer to humans? Isn't God not the son of man as the Scriptures states?​

'And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but He that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven.'
(Joh 3:13)

'What and if ye shall see the Son of man
ascend up where He was before?'
(Joh 6:62)

Hello @Runningman,

The wording of the verse (above-John 3:13) that you quote, says 'He' ('The Lord Jesus Christ') 'that came down from heaven': The title, 'The Son of man', is used in reference to the resurrected and glorified Christ, Who is now in heaven: It is He that is entitled, 'The Son of Man' by John.

Does God require being fallible human in order to redeem? You know, God can actually redeem without the need of people. Scripture says He doesn't need people nor desires sacrifice. Why, then, would there be need of an alleged incarnation.​

'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
He also Himself likewise took part of the same;
that through death He might destroy Him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels;
but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren,
that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted.'
(Heb 2:14-18)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Fred]

The Way doesn't itch peoples' ears.

Victor Paul Wierwille?
That guy was a heretic.

 

[Complete]

So John the Baptist is God according to that reasoning?

John 1
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Hello @Runningman,

The Apostles, such as Paul, were also 'sent ones', appointed by God, and equipped for service, as John was: Your objection does not make sense. Being 'sent from' God is very different from 'emanating' from Him, which was the word I used.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Runningman]

'And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but He that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven.'
(Joh 3:13)

'What and if ye shall see the Son of man
ascend up where He was before?'
(Joh 6:62)

Hello @Runningman,

The wording of the verse (above-John 3:13) that you quote, says 'He' ('The Lord Jesus Christ') 'that came down from heaven': The title, 'The Son of man', is used in reference to the resurrected and glorified Christ, Who is now in heaven: It is He that is entitled, 'The Son of Man' by John.

Jesus said that before his resurrection.

'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
He also Himself likewise took part of the same;
that through death He might destroy Him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels;
but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren,
that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted.'
(Heb 2:14-18)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

This says Jesus is just like his brethren. Jesus and his brethren can be tempted to sin, but God cannot. Jesus is just a human.

Hebrews 4
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

James 1
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

 

[Runningman]

Hello @Runningman,

The Apostles, such as Paul, were also 'sent ones', appointed by God, and equipped for service, as John was: Your objection does not make sense. Being 'sent from' God is very different from 'emanating' from Him, which was the word I used.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

The point is that being sent by God is just another one of the many factors that cannot be used to justify deity of Jesus.

 

[Complete]

'And Jesus answering said unto them,
Do ye not therefore err,
because ye know not the scriptures,
neither the power of God?
(Mar 12:24)

I leave you in God's hands, @Runningman.

 

[Runningman]

'And Jesus answering said unto them,
Do ye not therefore err,
because ye know not the scriptures,
neither the power of God?
(Mar 12:24)

I leave you in God's hands, @Runningman.

Goodbye

Yes, you will leave me in God's hands and none will be able to snatch me from them, though they may try. I am here when you are ready to know who God is.

 

[mikesw]

'And Jesus answering said unto them,
Do ye not therefore err,
because ye know not the scriptures,
neither the power of God?
(Mar 12:24)

I leave you in God's hands, @Runningman.

Yes, you will leave me in God's hands and none will be able to snatch me from them, though they may try. I am here when you are ready to know who God is.

@Complete -- we are aided by Runningman's fallen effort to deny the deity of Christ in the Godhead since we see his argument fails in light of scripture. We learn the Trinitarian concepts all the better.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Prophets, Priests, and Kings were anointed before they assumed office that signified royal competence. Anointing was a means of investing someone with power, such as the anointment of King Solomon to signify divine sanctification and approval. Aaron was the first to be anointed for the priesthood, and the High Priest was often called the anointed Priest. The prophet Elijah was anointed and received the command to anoint Elisha. The character of the anointment gave the King the privilege of becoming the Lord’s anointed, that signified he was to serve God and reign in God’s stead over the people. The right to anoint the King was executed by the Prophet, and then later in time, only the High Priest had the right to anoint the King.

The title “the Lord’s anointed” was later shortened to “anointed.” The Hebrew, in the Aramaic form uses the word “messiah.” The Greeks translated “messiah” into the Greek as “Christ.” Jesus was anointed as Prophet, Priest, and King to signify the fulfillment of the promised messiah. Jesus was also anointed by God with the holy spirit and with power (Acts 10:38).

There are other passages that cannot be applied to men but to God as those passages declare.
But you're on the right track. I doubt you will study every reference of the Promised Seed and who and what He does and is.

 

[Peterlag]

There are other passages that cannot be applied to men but to God as those passages declare.
But you're on the right track. I doubt you will study every reference of the Promised Seed and who and what He does and is.

What I really want to know is why folks have dug their heels into this false concept that Jesus is God and that he was around before he was born. The Catholics and the devil really deceived the whole Christian world with this one. I wish I could get another answer from you folks as to why you absolutely must believe in a false doctrine other than the Bible says so because the Bible does not say so. It does not make any sense. There's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

 

[Runningman]

What I really want to know is why folks have dug their heels into this false concept that Jesus is God and that he was around before he was born. The Catholics and the devil really deceived the whole Christian world with this one. I wish I could get another answer from you folks as to why you absolutely must believe in a false doctrine other than the Bible says so because the Bible does not say so. It does not make any sense. There's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

another good question is why would God do that when the Bible says He didn't desire sacrifice?

Hebrews 10
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

 

[jeremiah1five]

What I really want to know is why folks have dug their heels into this false concept that Jesus is God and that he was around before he was born. The Catholics and the devil really deceived the whole Christian world with this one. I wish I could get another answer from you folks as to why you absolutely must believe in a false doctrine other than the Bible says so because the Bible does not say so. It does not make any sense. There's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

If Jesus was not God, then He could save no one. He has the power to raise Himself from the dead and also His people as well. Only God can raise the dead, give sight, hearing, etc.