Jesus denied being God

[Runningman]

Nice try you even as a Unitarian would agree you can never know everything there is to know about God, many things are a mystery about God whether a person is a unitarian, modalist or trinitarian.

So you argument holds no water.

Jesus revealed exactly who God is to his disciples. Jesus didn't hold back. No discussion or talk about any Trinity from Jesus or anyone else in the Bible. The mystery is revealed, but you missed it because you're blinded by a false doctrine.

Matthew 13​

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.​

​

John 1​

18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

 

[Runningman]

That is really funny. A more deluded comment is hard to imagine. There are verses and arguments you have not addressed, verses and argument where you offer only bald denial, Verses where you have completely ignored context

mmmhm. Watch and see. I have been doing this for a while. Some of you will convert to Unitarianism in a year or so.

 

[TomL]

Jesus revealed exactly who God is to his disciples. Jesus didn't hold back. No discussion or talk about any Trinity from Jesus or anyone else in the Bible. The mystery is revealed, but you missed it because you're blinded by a false doctrine.

Matthew 13​

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.​

​

John 1​

18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Indeed he has declared him. Old Testament theophanies were appearances of Christ as no man has ever seen or heard the father's voice

 

[Runningman]

Indeed he has declared him. Old Testament theophanies were appearances of Christ as no man has ever seen or heard the father's voice

Jesus and the disciples didn't mention any theophanies. Let's test it. Where in any of the writings of the New Testament would replacing the word "God" with "Trinity" actually hold any water?

 

[TomL]

mmmhm. Watch and see. I have been doing this for a while. Some of you will convert to Unitarianism in a year or so.

Laughable

 

[TomL]

Jesus and the disciples didn't mention any theophanies. Let's test it. Where in any of the writings of the New Testament would replacing the word "God" with "Trinity" actually hold any water?

Um do you not understand what a theophany is

it is an appearance of God

There are many such in the Old Testament

according to Jesus no one has seen or heard the Father's voice

Yet as I showed you previously there are multiple occurrences where men are stated to have seen God.

Genesis 32:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Judges 13:22 (KJV 1900) — 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

Exodus 24:9–11 (KJV 1900) — 9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

so who did they see

 

[TomL]

Jesus and the disciples didn't mention any theophanies. Let's test it. Where in any of the writings of the New Testament would replacing the word "God" with "Trinity" actually hold any water?

Who made the heavens and the earth?

Can you ignore these

CHRIST CREATED ALL THINGS

John 1:3 Colossians 1:16 Hebrews 1:2, 10; Ephesians 3:9; 1Corinthians 8:6

JEHOVAH CREATED ALL THINGS

Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 44:24; 45:18; Revelation 4:11

 

[Runningman]

Um do you not understand what a theophany is

it is an appearance of God

There are many such in the Old Testament

according to Jesus no one has seen or heard the Father's voice

Yet as I showed you previously there are multiple occurrences where men are stated to have seen God.

Genesis 32:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Judges 13:22 (KJV 1900) — 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

Exodus 24:9–11 (KJV 1900) — 9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

so who did they see

Don't run away. Where does any place in the Bible have the word God that, when replaced with Trinity, makes a lick of sense? Waiting for you.

 

[Runningman]

Who made the heavens and the earth?

Can you ignore these

CHRIST CREATED ALL THINGS

John 1:3 Colossians 1:16 Hebrews 1:2, 10; Ephesians 3:9; 1Corinthians 8:6

JEHOVAH CREATED ALL THINGS

Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 44:24; 45:18; Revelation 4:11

John 1:1-2 says the God the word was with created the heavens and earth....

Colossians 1:15-16 proves the creator is not the image of God.

1 Corinthians 8:6 proves God is the Father

Hebrews 1:2 proves the universe was not made in these last days...

Ephesians 3:9 proves Jesus is not in the Trinity in context.

Again... where does adding the word Trinity to the Bible make any sense? Hello Tom. It's a mystery. Everyone has already tried this. The Trinity contradicts the Bible. Try it.

 

[civic]

Indeed he has declared him. Old Testament theophanies were appearances of Christ as no man has ever seen or heard the father's voice

Correct that is the Unitarian dilemma

YHWH was seen and heard many times in the OT but Jesus said it was not the Father,

They are in a GIANT PICKLE and make Jesus words out to be a lie.

 

[Runningman]

Correct that is the Unitarian dilemma

YHWH was seen and heard many times in the OT but Jesus said it was not the Father,

They are in a GIANT PICKLE and make Jesus words out to be a lie.

That's a doctrine, a philosophy, an idea. It's not stated in the Bible. I go with the Bible.. you're going with a subjective idea.

 

[TomL]

Correct that is the Unitarian dilemma

YHWH was seen and heard many times in the OT but Jesus said it was not the Father,

They are in a GIANT PICKLE and make Jesus words out to be a lie.

And offer only bald denials

 

[civic]

That's a doctrine, a philosophy, an idea. It's not stated in the Bible. I go with the Bible.. you're going with a subjective idea.

No its Jesus own words/teaching since He alone is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

He declared no one has seen the Father or heard His voice in the O.T.

Yes we know beginning with Adam and all the OT prophets beginning with Abraham that they heard and saw YHWH and Jesus says that was not the Father they saw and heard,

next fallacy.

 

[Runningman]

No its Jesus own words/teaching since He alone is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

He declared no one has seen the Father or heard His voice in the O.T.

Yes we know beginning with Adam and all the OT prophets beginning with Abraham that they heard and saw YHWH and Jesus says that was not the Father they saw and heard,

next fallacy.

Question... do you know where Jesus got his way, truth, and life from?

John 5
19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 8
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

 

[civic]

Question... do you know where Jesus got his way, truth, and life from?

John 5
19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 8
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

nice try John 1:3-4 declares He is Life, its Found in Him. He is the source of all life.

next fallacy

 

[dwight92070]

Jesus said, "I am the bread that came down out of heaven; I have come down out of heaven; I am the bread of life - This is the bread which comes down out of heaven; I am the living bread that came down out of heaven." (All in John 6)

We know His body was formed in and came out of the womb of Mary - so what "came down out of heaven"? Obviously, His Spirit, the Spirit of the eternal Word of God.

Jesus said, "you ... have believed that I came forth from the Father. I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father." John 16:27-28

We see from verse 29, that He is speaking literally here - not using a figure of speech:

"His disciples said, "Lo, now You are speaking plainly and are not using a figure of speech."

Jesus told them just a few verses before (verse 25) that "an hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but will tell you plainly of the Father."

So He LITERALLY came forth from the Father and had LITERALLY come into the world in His Spirit, so we see PLAINLY, NOT FIGURATIVELY that Jesus not only pre-existed, but that He emanated from the Father, i.e. He was the essence of the Father Himself. Paul said that "God was IN CHRIST, reconciling the world to HIMSELF." Jesus was that "HIMSELF".

 

[Peterlag]

Yes, we will have to root them out of every hole they have planted in. I've observed after they have gone through their typical alleged proofs for the Trinity and they are dealt with they will eventually stop referring to the vast majority of those verses. We will have them confined to a box of no more than 1-5 verses in a matter of years and that's where they will dig their heals in the hardest.

Best place to go after is John 1 which, in my experience, has been one of their last strongholds. I have a lot of experience with this chapter and it's pretty easy to disprove. I may open a thread later if I have time.

I may do it myself. Post a few pages just on John 1. Where should I post it?

 

[Peterlag]

I am completely honest here

You are not dealing with the point i raised

Show Phil 2:5 is consistent with a discription of an impersonal thing

Now you say

"Jesus was not in the form of God and he did not take on human flesh"
Completely ignoring the text

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

and show yourself to be denying the bible

Readers observe what is necessary for those who deny the deity of Christ to indulge in

Phil 2:5 is not consistent with a description of an impersonal thing. And because you cannot get me to say it is when you say I'm not dealing with it.

 

[TomL]

Phil 2:5 is not consistent with a description of an impersonal thing. And because you cannot get me to say it is when you say I'm not dealing with it.

You are making my point

Now

Philippians 2:4–8 (KJV 1900) — 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

When did he exist in the form of God

before being made in the likeness of man or after

Is it not before he became man

so before becoming man he had a mind. He had thoughts and was able to demonstrate humility

That shows the pre-existant Christ was not an impersonal thing

hellol

 

[synergy]

That is really funny. A more deluded comment is hard to imagine. There are verses and arguments you have not addressed, verses and argument where you offer only bald denial, Verses where you have completely ignored context

That's why he has appropriately called himself the @Runningman! He runs away from English Grammar, Greek Grammar, Basic Logic, Reality (in this case), and thousands of Bible verses.