Jesus denied being God

[Runningman]

I have. You will not accept anything from me on that verse unless I agree with you and I don't. And again the verse does not talk about an impersonal thing. You keep saying it. But it's not in the verse.

It’s clearly his stratagem. You answer his questions and he rarely, if ever, will answer yours. I have a different thread where Tom and I just simply started copying and pasting the same exact replies to each other because he claimed I was not replying to his comments even though I had given thoughtful, on topic, replies to his comments.

 

[Wilber]

Ok. Thank you, but I am not sure what he is defining as “Biblical.” There are a lot of people that attach their beliefs to the Bible, cherry pick a one-liner out of context, and say it’s Biblical.

The idea of the bread in the Lord’s supper transforming into flesh is Biblical. A lot of things can be parsed or deduced or inferred from the Bible. There’s a way to argue Paul was in the garden of Eden. There’s a way to infer Pater is Satan incarnate. It’s Biblical. The word must be rightly divided, it must be righty handled, and we can go too far with ideas and then they become unbiblical.

However, not all that is derived from the Bible is what they were trying to suggest.

So you seem to be quoting from a source from Millard J. Erickson. Do you have a link please?

Millard J. Erickson, Making Sense of the Trinity, 3 Crucial Questions

Making Sense of the Trinity

Many Christians and plenty of nonbelievers lack an understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. This often is a barrier to faith or growth. In Making Sense of the Trinity, Millard J. Erickson demonstrates the biblical foundation, logic, and importance of the Trinity as he answers these three...

books.google.com

 

[MTMattie]

For any and all Anti-Trins....

Rev 21

Revelation 21:22-23 ESV / ​

And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

IOW One for all and all for one.

Revelation 22:3-5 ​

No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

They......

Sorry to post such a truncated answer here to such an important subject... But a single verse is worth a thousand... and the rest of New Heavens, New Earth discussion will wait for another day...

 

[Runningman]

For any and all Anti-Trins....

Rev 21

Revelation 21:22-23 ESV / ​

And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

IOW One for all and all for one.

Revelation 22:3-5 ​

No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

They......

Sorry to post such a truncated answer here to such an important subject... But a single verse is worth a thousand... and the rest of New Heavens, New Earth discussion will wait for another day...

Revelation 21:22-23 calls the Lamb its lamp. Then Revelation 22:3-5 says they will need no light of a lamp.

God and Lamb are distinct light sources. This indeed does refer to the new heavens and new earth. Paul taught that Jesus won’t be Lord anymore.

1 Corinthians 15​

28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.​

Daniel 7 confirms that Jesus will be with his people with the Most High as their leader.

Daniel 7​

18But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever—yes, forever and ever.’​

​

27Then the sovereignty, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.’​

​

​

See why they won’t need a lamp anymore? All dominion will return to God yet the people will be autonomous over their Kingdom wherein only righteousness dwells. In other words, Jesus is one of the people. All of them together will serve God. These scriptures will likely sound foreign to most here. Trinitarians don’t dare bring them up. You will probably never hear them in church either.

 

[Peterlag]

It’s clearly his stratagem. You answer his questions and he rarely, if ever, will answer yours. I have a different thread where Tom and I just simply started copying and pasting the same exact replies to each other because he claimed I was not replying to his comments even though I had given thoughtful, on topic, replies to his comments.

Because there's no trinity and because I know the New Testament so well is how I know there's no teaching about a trinity. Nowhere and this is why I can answer every trinity question. But these folks are not looking for answers. They are looking to prove their point. If you do not see their point then they say you are running from the question. Or you have not answered. etc.

 

[Peterlag]

Millard J. Erickson, Making Sense of the Trinity, 3 Crucial Questions

Making Sense of the Trinity

Many Christians and plenty of nonbelievers lack an understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. This often is a barrier to faith or growth. In Making Sense of the Trinity, Millard J. Erickson demonstrates the biblical foundation, logic, and importance of the Trinity as he answers these three...

books.google.com

I'm told by folks on here that you can't post what someone else says. And that means you're just parroting and not thinking for yourself. Today I was told that you should invite Millard to the discussion so we don't have to deal with your third party source. Others have said when I post data from others that I need to grow up and learn the scriptures. Others say I need to stop listening to others and learn to think for myself.

 

[Peterlag]

To be fair, the Trinity doesn’t make sense to a lot of Trinitarians, especially the really smart, well-read, and doctorate theologians. It doesn’t make sense to me and I’ve studied it a lot. It’s pretty common to just conclude the Trinity in a mystery and a great number of them are on record saying it is such. It’s been a common thought-terminating cliche to call the Trinity a great mystery for hundreds of years now.

New York Times bestselling author and Bible expert Bart Ehrman reveals how Jesus’s divinity became dogma in the first few centuries of the early church. The claim at the heart of the Christian faith is that Jesus of Nazareth was, and is, God. But this is not what the original disciples believed during Jesus’s lifetime—and it is not what Jesus claimed about himself. How Jesus Became God tells the story of an idea that shaped Christianity, and of the evolution of a belief that looked very different in the fourth century than it did in the first.

 

[TomL]

Proverbs 8 is Proverbs. I made several different posts about several different topics in reply to you. Philippians 2:5-8 isn’t about an impersonal being. Whoever said otherwise?

The point of showing you Proverbs 8 was to show you what personification is.

Meyer's NT Commentary on the Word disagrees with you:

“The investigation of the Logos idea can only lead to a true result when pursued by the path of history. But here, above all, history points us to the O. T.,[64] and most directly to Genesis 1, where the act of creation is effected by God speaking. The reality contained in this representation, anthropomorphic as to its form, of the revelation of Himself made in creation by God, who is in His own nature hidden, became the root of the Logos idea. The Word as creative, and embodying generally the divine will, is personified in Hebrew poetry (Psalm 33:6; Psalm 107:20; Psalm 147:15; Isaiah 55:10-11); and consequent upon this concrete and independent representation, divine attributes are predicated of it (Psalm 34:4; Isaiah 40:8; Psalm 119:105), so far as it was at the same time the continuous revelation of God in law and prophecy. ”

Seeing as you claimed the Word was an impersonal being and in Phil2:5 we read about Christ before he became flesh when hew existed in the form of God as the Word your doctrine is in tatters

also the fact Jesus repeatedly stated he came down from heaven and had glory with the father you do not have a leg to stand on.

 

[Wilber]

I'm told by folks on here that you can't post what someone else says. And that means you're just parroting and not thinking for yourself. Today I was told that you should invite Millard to the discussion so we don't have to deal with your third party source. Others have said when I post data from others that I need to grow up and learn the scriptures. Others say I need to stop listening to others and learn to think for myself.

I think the best thing to do when you're posting here is to follow the rules

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-rules.47/

 

[TomL]

I have. You will not accept anything from me on that verse unless I agree with you and I don't. And again the verse does not talk about an impersonal thing. You keep saying it. But it's not in the verse.

Sorry no you have not

I challenge you to point out where you addressed the fact that Phil 2:5 which points to Christ before becoming flesh is consistent with him having been an impersonal thing

And what I keep saying, and you just affirmed there is no way Phil 2:5 can be speaking of an impersonal thing

As a result the Word of john 1:1 was not impersonal

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry no you have not

I challenge you to point out where you addressed the fact that Phil 2:5 which points to Christ before becoming flesh is consistent with him having been an impersonal thing

And what I keep saying, and you just affirmed there is no way Phil 2:5 can be speaking of an impersonal thing

As a result the Word of john 1:1 was not impersonal

Words are not people. They are not personal or impersonal. What I said when I woke up is not a person. I don't know how to explain it any better. What God says is not a person.

 

[Peterlag]

I think the best thing to do when you're posting here is to follow the rules

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-rules.47/

What rule are you speaking about? I think we should all play by the rules. I'm attacked on here brutally. I'm attacked personally and called ignorant and stupid. Are these the rules you speak of?

 

[synergy]

What rule are you speaking about? I think we should all play by the rules. I'm attacked on here brutally. I'm attacked personally and called ignorant and stupid. Are these the rules you speak of?

Which rule were you following when you spewed out the following:

You need to stop drinking.

 

[Peterlag]

Which rule were you following when you spewed out the following:

Humor. It was satire. I just saw Dean Martin say it about Frank Sinatra on the Jerry Lewis show.

 

[synergy]

View attachment 979

New York Times bestselling author and Bible expert Bart Ehrman reveals how Jesus’s divinity became dogma in the first few centuries of the early church. The claim at the heart of the Christian faith is that Jesus of Nazareth was, and is, God. But this is not what the original disciples believed during Jesus’s lifetime—and it is not what Jesus claimed about himself. How Jesus Became God tells the story of an idea that shaped Christianity, and of the evolution of a belief that looked very different in the fourth century than it did in the first.

What were his arguments? Lay them out so that they can be analyzed.

Better still, does he say anything about the Bible? If so, does he cherry pick verses and pull them out of context?

 

[MTMattie]

Revelation 21:22-23 calls the Lamb its lamp. Then Revelation 22:3-5 says they will need no light of a lamp.

God and Lamb are distinct light sources. This indeed does refer to the new heavens and new earth. Paul taught that Jesus won’t be Lord anymore.

1 Corinthians 15​

28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.​

Daniel 7 confirms that Jesus will be with his people with the Most High as their leader.

Daniel 7​

18But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever—yes, forever and ever.’​

​

27Then the sovereignty, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.’​

​

​

See why they won’t need a lamp anymore? All dominion will return to God yet the people will be autonomous over their Kingdom wherein only righteousness dwells. In other words, Jesus is one of the people. All of them together will serve God. These scriptures will likely sound foreign to most here. Trinitarians don’t dare bring them up. You will probably never hear them in church either.

I suppose we could embark on another 1900 reply post of comprehension.. but if it is vague to you now, it shall always be.

 

[synergy]

Humor. It was satire. I just saw Dean Martin say it about Frank Sinatra on the Jerry Lewis show.

You never followed up on that statement, only when you were called out on it.

So remember to think twice before throwing a stone.

 

[MTMattie]

Even God the Father referred to Jesus as God: Psalm 45:6
Psalm 45 in Hebrews 1. The author of Hebrews makes the point immediately in this book that Jesus Christ is God's final speech.

“6About the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom’”

'' 7You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your fellows.


Should be The End.

 

[synergy]

Even God the Father referred to Jesus as God: “About the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever’”

Should be The End.

All Heretics have a bag of excuses that they will reach into to attempt to blunt the word of God. Examples are: that's a metaphoric statement, that's meant for someone else, you don't understand, how dare you think that, etc ..

 

[TomL]

Words are not people. They are not personal or impersonal. What I said when I woke up is not a person. I don't know how to explain it any better. What God says is not a person.

That does not deal with Phil 2:5ff

where have you taken up the challenge?

I challenge you to point out where you addressed the fact that Phil 2:5 which points to Christ before becoming flesh is consistent with him having been an impersonal thing

And what I keep saying, and you just affirmed there is no way Phil 2:5 can be speaking of an impersonal thing

As a result the Word of john 1:1 was not impersonal