mailmandan
Active Member
To be more specific, SAVING FAITH exists the moment that we place it in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:5-9)You cannot use the word you are defining in the definition. Faith exists the moment faith exists? Do you not see the stupidity in what you are saying?
Nothing stupid about that. It takes more than human wisdom to understand the things of the Spirit of God. It takes spiritual discernment. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14) The Bible is not merely a text book.
Everyone has faith in something, but not everyone has saving faith in Jesus Christ. Many instead have faith in works (at least in part). Roman Catholics, Mormons and Campbellites, just to name a few.

You have a problem with CAUSE and EFFECT. Faith in Jesus Christ is the cause and works are the effect. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) Paul says nothing here about faith and actions/works which follow. More cart before the horse nonsense.Scripture says that faith exists the moment it includes action (James 2:20, 22, 24, 26). Eph 2:5-9 does not contradict this fact. Eph 2:5-9 says that faith (living, active faith) is the conduit through which God sends His grace to us. It says NOTHING about that faith being inactive, passive, and mental-only.
Faith demonstrates that it exists the moment we show our faith by our actions/works (James 2:14-18) yet saving faith exists the moment we trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

No, I have the whole truth. (James 2:14-24; Romans 4:2-6) *Perfect Harmony*No, you have only half the truth.
False. A good tree (which represents a believer) bears good fruit (which represents good works) but a bad tree (which represents an unbeleiver and includes make believers) bears bad fruit (which represents bad works) - Matthew 7:17. Your argument is with Jesus and not me.Action is not the fruit of faith.
In Matthew 13:23, we read - But the one sown on the good ground—this is one who hears and understands the word, who does produce fruit and yields: some a hundred, some sixty, some thirty times what was sown. Fruit here represents good works. All genuine believers are fruitful yet not all are equally fruitful.
False. That's like saying fruit produced from a tree is the life blood, the heart of the tree. Being made alive together with Christ by grace through faith is the life blood, the heart of faith. Life flows through the root of a tree and produces fruit and not the other way around. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) You have it backwards. Tail wagging the dog. Cart before the horse.Action is the soul, the life blood, the heart of faith.
OXYMORON.Yes, there are many "good works" that come from having faith, and these are the works that God created us to be doing. But those come after salvation is received. Salvation REQUIRES a living, active faith for it to be received in the first place.
No, you trust in your EISEGESIS and your biased church doctrine which culminates in salvation by works/works righteousness.Again, no. I trust in Jesus' Word which says that in order to receive salvation we must repent of our sins (Acts 3:19), confess Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and be baptized in water (John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:6-27, etc.).
I believe those Scriptures (I just don't believe your EISEGESIS). False religion turns symbols and shadows of salvation into the substance and the source. I trust in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)You think that these passages are either not Scripture, don't mean what they say, or find some other way to explain them away. But I trust 100% in my Lord and savior Jesus Christ who told us exactly how to enter into His Kingdom.
We do not demonstrate that we have faith unless we have action which follows. No action to follow demonstrates no faith. Faith = belief, trust, reliance. Action which follow = works.Precisely. You do not have faith unless you have action with it. No action = no faith. Action = faith.
By trusting in Him alone for salvation and not in works. (John 10:9; 14:6; Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)According to Scripture, how do we "place our faith in Jesus Christ"?
Place our faith in Him alone and not place our faith in Him + works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)What does Scripture say is required to place our faith in Him?
Works are the fruit of faith as I already proved from Scripture. Jesus uses the analogy of trees and fruit in Matthew 7, saying that "every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit". He then goes on to explain that you will recognize people by their fruit/deeds, indicating that actions are a reflection of one's inner state.No, works are not the fruit of faith. That is not Biblical in the least.
Faith is the foundational element, the source from which good works are produced. Good works are the visible manifestation or outward expression, of a person's inner faith. Evidence of true faith. Simple!
