Nope but all have that opportunity
Remember you established all equals all without exception
Jacob and Esau
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Remember you established all equals all without exception
Exactly. You still agree with me. God exists outside of time. A plan assumes time. Hence it never mentions a plan.
sorry but that is absurd
You think God does not know that you will be created and saved in time
You did not exist in eternity to be a recipient of God's plan to save which was made in eternity
Acts 2:23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.
Eph 3:9and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,
Your idea God cannot make a plan in eternity is busted
civic
Well-known member
Yep
No mention of opportunity in the text. More question begging.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
True. John 3:16 isn't stating an opportunity. It is identifying those who are the believing ones.
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
Johann
Well-known member
Correct-
Here is the Greek text of John 3:16:
Greek Breakdown and Analysis
- Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον (Houtōs gar ēgapēsen ho Theos ton kosmon)
- Οὕτως (houtōs): Adverb meaning "in this way" or "so." It introduces the manner in which God loved the world.
- γὰρ (gar): Conjunction meaning "for." It provides a reason or explanation.
- ἠγάπησεν (ēgapēsen): Verb, aorist active indicative, third person singular of ἀγαπάω (agapaō), meaning "he loved." The aorist tense indicates a past, completed action.
- ὁ Θεὸς (ho Theos): Noun, nominative singular with the definite article "the God" (subject of the verb).
- τὸν κόσμον (ton kosmon): Noun, accusative singular with the definite article "the world" (direct object of the verb).
- ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν (hōste ton huion ton monogenē edōken)
- ὥστε (hōste): Conjunction meaning "so that" or "therefore," introducing a result clause.
- τὸν υἱὸν (ton huion): Noun, accusative singular with the definite article "the Son" (direct object of the verb in the result clause).
- τὸν μονογενῆ (ton monogenē): Adjective, accusative singular with the definite article "the only begotten" or "one and only."
- ἔδωκεν (edōken): Verb, aorist active indicative, third person singular of δίδωμι (didōmi), meaning "he gave." The aorist tense indicates a past, completed action.
- ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται (hina pas ho pisteuōn eis auton mē apolētai)
- ἵνα (hina): Conjunction meaning "in order that," introducing a purpose clause.
- πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων(pas ho pisteuōn):
- πᾶς (pas): Adjective, nominative singular meaning "everyone" or "all."
- ὁ πιστεύων (ho pisteuōn): Participle, present active nominative singular of πιστεύω (pisteuō) with the definite article "the one believing" or "everyone who believes." The present tense indicates continuous or habitual action.
- εἰς αὐτὸν (eis auton): Prepositional phrase meaning "in him."
- μὴ ἀπόληται(mē apolētai):
- μὴ (mē): Negative particle meaning "not."
- ἀπόληται (apolētai): Verb, aorist middle subjunctive, third person singular of ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi), meaning "should perish." The subjunctive mood indicates potential or purpose, and the aorist tense indicates a single or definite event.
- ἀλλ᾽ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον (all' echē zōēn aiōnion)
- ἀλλ᾽ (all'): Conjunction meaning "but."
- ἔχῃ (echē): Verb, present active subjunctive, third person singular of ἔχω (echō), meaning "have" or "might have." The present tense indicates continuous action, and the subjunctive mood indicates purpose or result.
- ζωὴν αἰώνιον(zōēn aiōnion):
- ζωὴν (zōēn): Noun, accusative singular meaning "life."
- αἰώνιον (aiōnion): Adjective, accusative singular meaning "eternal."
Summary of Syntactic Force and Morphology
- Syntactic Force: The verse contains a main clause ("God loved the world") with several dependent clauses explaining the result ("so that he gave his one and only Son") and the purpose ("in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish but will have eternal life").
- Morphology:
- Verbs: The key verbs are in the aorist tense (indicating completed actions) and the subjunctive mood (indicating purpose or potential actions).
- Nouns: Nouns are used with definite articles to specify particular entities (e.g., "the God," "the world," "the Son").
- Adjectives and Adverbs: Adjectives describe the uniqueness of the Son ("one and only"), and adverbs like "in this way" specify the manner of God's love.
Interpretation
John 3:16 emphasizes the greatness of God's love demonstrated through the giving of His unique Son, Jesus, with the purpose of offering eternal life to everyone who believes in Him. The syntactic structure highlights the connection between God's love, the sacrificial giving of His Son, and the resultant offer of eternal life, underscoring the inclusive nature of the gospel invitation.Joh 3:16 ¶ “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 Because God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s unique Son.
For God So Loved the World
Joh 3:16 For Hashem so had ahavah (agape) for the Olam Hazeh that Hashem gave the matanah (gift) [Isa 9:5 (6)] of Hashem’s Ben Yechid [Gn 22:12; Prov 30:4; 8:30 so that whosoever has emunah in him may not be ne’evad (lost, perish, be ruined with destruction), but find Chayyei Olam [Daniel 12:2].
Joh 3:17 For Hashem did not send the Ben HaElohim into the Olam Hazeh that he might judge the Olam Hazeh, but that the Olam Hazeh might be brought to the Geulah (Redemption) of the Olam Haba through him (Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach). [YESHAYAH 53:11]
Joh 3:18 The one of emunah who is mekabel Moshiach (accepting the person of the Ben HaAdam, Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach) is not judged; but the one without emunah who is not mekabel Moshiach, already has been judged and given the psak din (verdict) of “condemned,” because he has no emunah in the Shem of the Ben Yachid of Hashem.
Joh 3:16 For YAHWEH so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For YAHWEH did not send His Son into the world that He might condemn the world, but that the world might have life through Him.
Joh 3:18 The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of YAHWEH.
¶ For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge [Or “he should condemn”] the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, [Or “condemned”] but the one who does not believe has already been judged, [Or “been condemned”] because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
1) "That whosoever believeth in him," (hina pas ho pisteuon en autou) "In order that everyone believing in him;- The serpent was lifted up for Jews only, but Jesus was lifted up for the sins of the whole world, including all men, and excluding none, who will believe or trust in Him, as the Savior or Redeemer, Isa_45:22; Isa_53:4-6; Joh_3:17-18; Joh_5:24; 1Jn_5:11; Rev_22:17.
2) “Should not perish," (me apoletai) "May not perish," as the inescapable consequence of sin in every person, except or unless he receives Jesus Christ as his antidote, redeemer from the venom of sin in his soul, Luk_13:3; Luk_13:5; Joh_8:24; To perish means to come to damnation in hell forever, as the rich man did, Luk_16:19-31.
3) "But have eternal life." (eche zoen aionion) "May have hold or possess eternal life," life without end or cessation, in harmony with the nature of Jesus Christ, the giver of eternal life to everyone who believes in Him, Joh_10:27-28; 1Jn_5:13. It comes to every believer by belief, by faith placed in Jesus Christ, not by or through baptism, church membership, reformation or good works, as espoused by so many heretical Protestant sects and Roman Catholicism, Joh_1:11-13; Eph_2:8-10; Gal_3:26; Tit_3:5.
Joh 3:13 και ουδεις αναβεβηκεν εις τον ουρανον ει μη ο εκ του ουρανου καταβας ο υιος του ανθρωπου ο ων εν τω ουρανω
Joh 3:14 και καθως μωσης υψωσεν τον οφιν εν τη ερημω ουτως υψωθηναι δει τον υιον του ανθρωπου
Joh 3:15 ινα πας ο πιστευων εις αυτον μη αποληται αλλ εχη ζωην αιωνιον
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So what happened to God's perspective when Christ became flesh?
You assertion fails at many many levels.
If you deny a plan from God's perspective then is all of God's reality chaos? or part of a singular thought without beginning and end?
Or is all information total in a single thought?
That isn't the first time I've heard this before.
I'll wait for you to commit, it will much better if you commit so I can show just how wrong you are. Most of you Calvinists here refuse to commit to anything so you can play childish games.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Well I certainly have never believed that God creates Evil. I just believe that "evil" has not affect upon God. Evil doesn't change the fact that God is God alone.
Creating a creature that requires "food" to survive isn't an indication of sin.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I have many theories. Arguments from silence are difficult to establish.
A natural law that many people believe is true is "the law of conservation of energy"
This can be used to provide substance to your beliefs. I simply believe it is wrong. I do believe the battle for humanity preexisted the creation of man upon this earth. I believe that from the ashes of a prior destruction, God knelt and took the ashes of distruction and formed man in His likeness (limited, peccable). As such, "ashes" preexisted but the breath of God animated those ashes.
As far a soul is concerned, God created the soul of Adam and Eve. The joining of their seeds together had the innate power to create all subsequent life after their own likeness.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Without God, we return to our former state.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it
He says it...over and over and over!
remember you already affirmed all = all without exception
Romans 5:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
so either you affirm opportunity or you affirm universalism
So what you just refuted yourself
Shot himself in the footYep
All men in the first half of the verse must equal all men in the second half
Romans 5:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
civic
Well-known member
Exactly
Don't you think we are created as sinners here on earth? Or death praves sinfulness in infants as well as in older folk? I thought these doctrines were pretty stable across the theological board...
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
We are born peccable. Capable of sin. Bad things happen to humanity because we are no longer under the direct care of God as was Adam and Eve. God drove them from safety to "have it their way". This results in inevitable sin among us today but I do not believe it was so "from the beginning". The world before the flood abandoned God completely and this resulted what is referenced in Romans "there is none righteous. They have gone out of the way". Jesus reference how Moses suffered mankind to divorce but from the beginning it was not so.
So teach an exaggerated sense Total Depravity. There is innocence among the Godly who pass their faith on to their offspring. Faith is often generational. So is unbelief. We have the ability to sin and given our environment, a propensity to sin.
Okay. Clearly this conversation is above your pay grade. Good talk
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