Let's say that's true. The positive assertion is yours along with the burden of proof. Have fun
Jacob and Esau
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Still no mention of a plan.
A plan assumes time which God exists outside and is not subject to the rules thereof.
civic
Well-known member
Are you claiming election and predestination is not Gods plan ?
how about helping Tom out and show us where it mentions a "plan"
civic
Well-known member
So God didn’t plan anything I got it so you must not believe tulip .
you can't escape it
You believe they were unconditionally elected to be saved before the foundation of the earth
You do not believe they were saved at that time
you do believe they were saved later in time
so your view is simply God had a plan to save those men at some future time
you cannot escape it
it was not a reality that they were saved before the foundation of the earth
therefore it can only be a plan, an intention, a purpose (chose your word)
God may exist outside of time, but you do not, and you experience salvation in time
as does everyone else.
It's quite easy
take for example
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Do all men receive condemnation in Adam?
civic
Well-known member
Yep
some cannot follow simple logic and reasoningContextually, yup. Great example. Thanks
civic
Well-known member
here we go popcorn time early in the morning for breakfast
Nothing to escape. You can not prove your assertion. You simply question begging.
Now your on to something. The Bible is written based on the rules of time that we exist in. We cannot even conceive of what it means to exist in timelessness.
Now look at the second half
even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Sorry you are in denial
you can't escape it
You believe they were unconditionally elected to be saved before the foundation of the earth
You do not believe they were saved at that time
you do believe they were saved later in time
so your view is simply God had a plan to save those men at some future time
you cannot escape it
it was not a reality that they were saved before the foundation of the earth
therefore it can only be a plan, an intention, a purpose (chose your word)
God may exist outside of time, but you do not, and you experience salvation in time
as does everyone else.
civic
Well-known member
oh but wait a minute the same word all can't possibly mean the same thing in both rofl
So all are justified then?
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
If we are justified by faith, then the above verse is saying the free gift is faith.
Exactly
You got it. You won't admit but you understand perfectly.
That to. Good point.
But you don't
You believe they were unconditionally elected to be saved before the foundation of the earth
You do not believe they were saved at that time
you do believe they were saved later in time
so your view is simply God had a plan to save those men at some future time
you cannot escape it
it was not a reality that they were saved before the foundation of the earth
therefore it can only be a plan, an intention, a purpose (chose your word)
God may exist outside of time, but you do not, and you experience salvation in time
as does everyone else.
Not in the least
Romans 5:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Christ his grace is the gift here
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