Isaiah 53 the origin of PSA

[praise_yeshua]

Do you understand Hebrew more than all the people (Hellenized Alexandrian Jews, Tyndale, etc...) who translated the Hebrew OT into Greek or English? Do you understand the function of conjunctions "but" and "yet"?

The answer is no.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased Hashem to bruise him; He hath put him to suffering; when Thou shalt make his nefesh an asham offering for sin,

LXX-
Isa 53:10 And the LORD willed to cleanse him of the beating. If you should offer for a sin offering the thing for your life, he shall see [seed a long-lived].

I don't follow the LXX as my authoritative source.

he (Moshiach) shall see zera [see Psalm 16 and Yn 1:12 OJBC], He shall prolong his yamim (days) and the chefetz Hashem (pleasure, will of Hashem) shall prosper in his [Moshiach's] hand.
Isa 53:11 He [Hashem] shall see of the travail of his [Moshiach's] nefesh, and shall be satisfied; by knowledge of him [Moshiach] shall Tzadik Avdi ["My Righteous Servant," Moshiach, Zecharyah 3:8, Yirmeyah 23:5; Zecharyah 6:11-12, Ezra 3:8 Yehoshua, Yeshua shmo] justify many (Ro 5:1); for he [Moshiach] shall bear their avon (iniquities).
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his nefesh unto mavet (death); and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he nasah (Lv 16:22, carried) (like the Yom Kippur scapegoat) the sin of many, and made intercession [did the work of a mafgi'a, intercessor] for the transgressors [see Lk 23:34 OJBC].

Isa 53:10 Yet YHWHH3068 Conj-w+N-proper-ms Yah·weh וַיהוָ֞ה it pleasedH2654 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms ḥā·p̄êṣ חָפֵ֤ץ to bruise HimH1792 H8763 V-Piel-Inf+3ms dak·kə·’ōw דַּכְּאוֹ֙ He has put [Him] to grief;H2470 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms he·ḥĕ·lî הֶֽחֱלִ֔י whenH518 Conj ’im- אִם־ You makeH7760 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3fs tā·śîm תָּשִׂ֤ים an offering for sin,H817 N-ms ’ā·šām אָשָׁם֙ N1

https://youtu.be/PQnLCDbjjic?t=69

What were the beliefs of the Mosartes that produced your "authoritative" source?

Such good men... Right?

It really is sad to me to see you condemn your fellow Christian brothers with "fellowshipping with darkness" comments while ignoring the fact the MT you exalt came from unbelievers.

 

[civic]

What were the beliefs of the Mosartes that produced your "authoritative" source?

Such good men... Right?

It really is sad to me to see you condemn your fellow Christian brothers with "fellowshipping with darkness" comments while ignoring the fact the MT you exalt came from unbelievers.

Who have no spiritual insight since scripture is a spiritual book. Well they would have the spirit of the world which is in opposition to the Spirit of God.

 

[civic]

It’s actually projecting since it’s they who are the spirit of darkness and we are not fellowshiping with them since we oppose them. We are in fact fellowshiping with believers in the light.

 

[synergy]

What were the beliefs of the Mosartes that produced your "authoritative" source?

Such good men... Right?

It really is sad to me to see you condemn your fellow Christian brothers with "fellowshipping with darkness" comments while ignoring the fact the MT you exalt came from unbelievers.

The Jews tried to stamp out at all costs this "abhorrent" new religion called Christianity. They altered verses from the OT, they devised a bastardized version of the LXX (that we have no current record of), anything and everything that could possibly slay Christianity. The Masoretes inherited that demonic spirit and produced the Masoretic Text (MT). The tragedy is that many of our English OT translations are based on the MT. We have to be very careful when quoting from the OT. I oftentimes consult the Brenton version or the Greek OT (LXX) to be sure that I'm on solid footing when it comes to the OT.

 

[Johann]

We are talking about English grammar and I’ve studied Greek more than you

Was the cross a punishment God inflicted on Jesus?

Listen and learn-since this is your show.

 

[synergy]

Listen and learn-since this is your show.

Everyone of your Propitiation-heresy beliefs have been slayed by the LXX and its grammar. Now it's off to rabbit holes, this time to Youtube. What will be your next rabbit hole?

Tell us whatever points your Propitiation side makes and sit back and watch how each and every point gets slayed by the word of God.

 

[civic]

Everyone of your Propitiation-heresy beliefs have been slayed by the LXX and its grammar. Now it's off to rabbit holes, this time to Youtube. What will be your next rabbit hole?

Tell us whatever points your Propitiation side makes and sit back and watch how each and every point gets slayed by the word of God.

Agreed I’ve personally heard them all and read them all. Nothing new with the arguments from PSA advocates and the passages they use.

 

[Johann]

Agreed I’ve personally heard them all and read them all. Nothing new with the arguments from PSA advocates and the passages they use.

No-you haven't and the same questions Brown is asking Brian I am asking you.
Now you are going to HAVE to listen to the clip in WHAT Brown asked Brian Zahnd.
You have a blessed day.

 

[Johann]

Everyone of your Propitiation-heresy beliefs have been slayed by the LXX and its grammar. Now it's off to rabbit holes, this time to Youtube. What will be your next rabbit hole?

Tell us whatever points your Propitiation side makes and sit back and watch how each and every point gets slayed by the word of God.

You are putting a smile on my face-the LXX is not my source of authority-it is secondary.
Link to Video>

 

[synergy]

You are putting a smile on my face-the LXX is not my source of authority-it is secondary.

By doing so you oppose:

1. the Apostles who endorsed the LXX by overwhelmingly quoting from it, and
2. the Greek speaking Jewish Diaspora (Berean included) who were elected by God to carry forth the Gospel, with the use of their LXX, when they converted to Christianity.

That would not bring a smile to my face by any means.

 

[synergy]

No-you haven't and the same questions Brown is asking Brian I am asking you.
Now you are going to HAVE to listen to the clip in WHAT Brown asked Brian Zahnd.
You have a blessed day.

Please summarize "what Brown asked Zahnd". I'm not into rabbit holes.

 

[civic]

No-you haven't and the same questions Brown is asking Brian I am asking you.
Now you are going to HAVE to listen to the clip in WHAT Brown asked Brian Zahnd.
You have a blessed day.

I’ve been reading Browns material for years now. And I’m friends with him.

 

[Johann]

I’ve been reading Browns material for years now. And I’m friends with him.

So am I-but it is crystal you have the same viewpoint as Brian Zahnd in the monster debate between him and Brown.

 

[Diserner]

When did I ever say that? Stop misrepresenting me.

So you claim I'm "misrepresenting" you.

How am I misrepresenting you?

You DO think Jesus took the punishment for your sins?!

 

[synergy]

So you claim I'm "misrepresenting" you.

How am I misrepresenting you?

You DO think Jesus took the punishment for your sins?!

I believe that the Cross was an act of Expiation by Jesus and as such Jesus atoned for our sins. What I'm arguing against is the idea that the Cross was an act of Propitiation. That is an idea from paganism.

 

[Johann]

So you claim I'm "misrepresenting" you.

How am I misrepresenting you?

You DO think Jesus took the punishment for your sins?!

Oh yes, Jesus did.
Stay strong brother.
J.

 

[Diserner]

Oh yes, Jesus did.
Stay strong brother.
J.

Sometimes I think it is all "phraseology."

A person isn't "fat" (gasp).

They are just "calorically enabled and gravitationally challenged."

And in the end you are saying the same thing anyway, you just don't like a certain "phrasing."

 

[civic]

So am I-but it is crystal you have the same viewpoint as Brian Zahnd in the monster debate between him and Brown.

I have the same viewpoint as Jesus and the Apostle’s

 

[synergy]

I have the same viewpoint as Jesus and the Apostle’s

They try to box us into this person's viewpoint or that person's viewpoint. No! Our viewpoint is Biblical, the same as Jesus' and the Apostles' viewpoint, as you correctly declared.