Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

[TibiasDad]

There is not a 1 to 1 correlation with God when it comes to nature and person.
God has One Divine nature yet 3 Persons. There are not 3 Divine natures within God only 1.

Yes, of course, they are all the same nature of being. But yet are of independent personhood.

The Son is a Divine Person having a divine nature and a human nature. His Person is divine, not human.

Yes, the Word becomes flesh, human in being. The Word is the person becoming flesh and now is known as Jesus. (Please forgive my rambling, I will confess this particular issue has always been difficult for me to grasp.) So how does a solitary person have two wills and minds?

I guess I’ve accepted it in the same way that I accept that God is one in Trinity. I suppose that a God that I could fully comprehend would be a too small God, so I can live with the internal frustration that I can’t understand these things. But I keep trying, probably to my own detriment.

the unity of the divine will (the idea that though God exists in three Persons, the Triune God does not have three separate wills—a necessary doctrine if the three Persons share the same nature, since “will” is a property of nature not of persons

My only question here is that personhood is also a property of nature, at least of human nature. So if he is fully human he necessarily is also a human person.

Doug

 

[Diserner]

My only question here is that personhood is also a property of nature, at least of human nature. So if he is fully human he necessarily is also a human person.

100%.

Also a will is a property of a person not a nature.

Orthodoxy is a bit off in these matters.

 

[e v e]

Is to be human to be a person?
Was Jesus fully human?

Doug

Christ is a gorgeous being and the son of God.

 

[Matthias]

“You cannot posit a ‘human person’ in Jesus Christ in any sense and avoid heresy.”

Is Jesus a Human Person? - TimStaples.com

After writing my last post, “When the Word was Made Flesh, Did God Change?” I received an excellent follow-up question. One of my readers still could not get past just how we can say Christ was truly and “fully man,” and yet not be a “human person.” He asked if we could say that somehow Christ...

timstaples.com

 

[Diserner]

And remember folks, Trinnies are NEVER allowed to disagree.

Only Unies are allowed!

 

[synergy]

Yes, of course, they are all the same nature of being. But yet are of independent personhood.



Yes, the Word becomes flesh, human in being. The Word is the person becoming flesh and now is known as Jesus. (Please forgive my rambling, I will confess this particular issue has always been difficult for me to grasp.) So how does a solitary person have two wills and minds?

I guess I’ve accepted it in the same way that I accept that God is one in Trinity. I suppose that a God that I could fully comprehend would be a too small God, so I can live with the internal frustration that I can’t understand these things. But I keep trying, probably to my own detriment.


My only question here is that personhood is also a property of nature, at least of human nature. So if he is fully human he necessarily is also a human person.

Doug

Someone who embodies 2 persons will suffer from a dual personality (schizophrenic) syndrome. Therefore, there cannot be 2 persons in 1 body. You know what they say about schizophrenics: you're never alone if you're a schizophrenic.

Nevertheless, there can exist 2 wills as Christ clearly proved when he said the following, knowing that Christ does have a Divine will:

Luke 22:42 saying, Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me. Yet not My will, but Yours be done.

 

[Diserner]

Nevertheless, there can exist 2 wills as Christ clearly proved when he said the following, knowing that Christ does have a Divine will:

Luke 22:42 saying, Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me. Yet not My will, but Yours be done.

The Father's will is specifically described by Christ as "NOT my will."

So the Father's will cannot be Christ's second will or something.

One will per person, it's definitional.

 

[synergy]

@Matthias : I asked you if you believe Jesus when he said that He existed as the "I Am" even before Abraham existed?

You responded as follows:

The one God of the Pharisee is the same one God of the Messiah -> the Father.

Can I get a clear yes or no to my question?

 

[synergy]

The Father's will is specifically described by Christ as "NOT my will."

So the Father's will cannot be Christ's second will or something.

One will per person, it's definitional.

One can only will that which his nature allows him to will. Therefore Jesus, being the Uncreated Word of God, was able to align Himself with Divine will to undergo the Cross.

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias : I asked you if you believe Jesus when he said that He existed as the "I Am" even before Abraham existed?

You responded as follows:

Can I get a clear yes or no to my question?

I always believe Jesus.

You phrased your question with your understanding of what Jesus said. It’s your understanding of what he said that I don’t believe.

You’re reading his statement / scripture from a trinitarian understanding. I’m reading his statement / scripture from a Jewish understanding.

 

[synergy]

I always believe Jesus.

You phrased your question with your understanding of what Jesus said. It’s your understanding of what he said that I don’t believe.

You’re reading his statement from a trinitarian understanding. I’m reading scripture from a Jewish understanding.

Please tell us how you read John 8:58-59 through your eyes:

(John 8:58) Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM! (ἐγὼ εἰμί)
(John 8:59) Then they took up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus hid Himself and went forth out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and passed on by.

 

[Diserner]

The answer I've heard is that the "plan of the Messiah" existed eternally.

Of course for Christ to say "I" does not readily seem to reference something other than himself.

You have to get highly metaphorical with it.

 

[synergy]

The answer I've heard is that the "plan of the Messiah" existed eternally.

Not only the "plan" but the Uncreated Word of God (Christ=Messiah) existed eternally Himself.

Of course for Christ to say "I" does not readily seem to reference something other than himself.

Not sure I'm following you.

You have to get highly metaphorical with it.

Not necessarily. Jesus' life clearly and literally manifested both human and Divine will.

 

[Diserner]

Not sure I'm following you.

I'm speaking from their point of view, not mine...

 

[e v e]

“You cannot posit a ‘human person’ in Jesus Christ in any sense and avoid heresy.”

Is Jesus a Human Person? - TimStaples.com

After writing my last post, “When the Word was Made Flesh, Did God Change?” I received an excellent follow-up question. One of my readers still could not get past just how we can say Christ was truly and “fully man,” and yet not be a “human person.” He asked if we could say that somehow Christ...

timstaples.com

Christ is a man in the glorious type of body of the nature of paradise...


He is God's son and a beautiful Being.

 

[e v e]

“You cannot posit a ‘human person’ in Jesus Christ in any sense and avoid heresy.”

Is Jesus a Human Person? - TimStaples.com

After writing my last post, “When the Word was Made Flesh, Did God Change?” I received an excellent follow-up question. One of my readers still could not get past just how we can say Christ was truly and “fully man,” and yet not be a “human person.” He asked if we could say that somehow Christ...

timstaples.com

I have no idea what esau insists on the person word as if any other meaning is wrong. It is not wrong and its irrelevant.

Christ is a being. He is a deity and beautiful man ...He is God's Son.

 

[Diserner]

Christ is the Uncreated Creator of all things who is the Supremer Ruler over all things submitted to the Father and Spirit in becoming a man for the sake of redeeming humanity through suffering the payment of humanity's sin against God and defeating the power of death, who will come back to this earth, judge his saints and trample all the nations with the wrath of Almighty God who are not found inside his covenant of redemption.

He is not "God's little boy."

 

[Matthias]

And remember folks, Trinnies are NEVER allowed to disagree.

Who has told you that you are “NEVER allowed to disagree”?

You‘re allowed to disagree. You do disagree. You should disagree with anything you don’t agree with.

You disagree with orthodox trinitarianism. So do I.

 

[Matthias]

Please tell us how you read John 8:58-59 through your eyes:

(John 8:58) Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM! (ἐγὼ εἰμί)
(John 8:59) Then they took up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus hid Himself and went forth out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and passed on by.

Aren’t you the same person who told me just a couple of days ago that you couldn’t care less about what I think? Why are you asking me to explain to you how I read the passage?

Have you never heard before how a Jewish monotheist understands the passage?

 

[Matthias]

I'm speaking from their point of view, not mine...

Do you know what my point of view is on John 8:58?