Maybe. You still lock arms with Rome when it comes to synergism.synergism was the default position in the early church until Augustine came on the scene.
Is Calvinism Gnosticism?
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
Johann
Well-known member
Against Heresies (Book IV, Chapter 37)
Men are possessed of free will, and endowed with the faculty of making a choice. It is not true,
therefore, that some are by nature good, and others bad.
1. This expression [of our Lord], How often would I have gathered your children together, and
you would not, Matthew 23:37 set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made
man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul,
to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God.
For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually.
And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed
the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience
might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the
other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good,
and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but
they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt
upon His super-eminent goodness. Rejecting therefore the good, and as it were spuing it out, they
shall all deservedly incur the just judgment of God, which also the Apostle Paul testifies in his
Epistle to the Romans, where he says, But do you despise the riches of His goodness, and
patience, and long-suffering, being ignorant that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
But according to your hardness and impenitent heart, you store to yourself wrath against the day
of wrath, and the revelation of the righteous judgment of God. But glory and honour, he says, to
every one that does good. God therefore has given that which is good, as the apostle tells us in
this Epistle, and they who work it shall receive glory and honour, because they have done that
which is good when they had it in their power not to do it; but those who do it not shall receive
the just judgment of God, because they did not work good when they had it in their power so to
do.
2. But if some had been made by nature bad, and others good, these latter would not be deserving
of praise for being good, for such were they created; nor would the former be reprehensible, for
thus they were made [originally]. But since all men are of the same nature, able both to hold fast
and to do what is good; and, on the other hand, having also the power to cast it from them and
not to do it—some do justly receive praise even among men who are under the control of good
laws (and much more from God), and obtain deserved testimony of their choice of good in
general, and of persevering therein; but the others are blamed, and receive a just condemnation,
because of their rejection of what is fair and good. And therefore the prophets used to exhort men
to what was good, to act justly and to work righteousness, as I have so largely demonstrated,
because it is in our power so to do, and because by excessive negligence we might become
forgetful, and thus stand in need of that good counsel which the good God has given us to know
by means of the prophets.
3. For this reason the Lord also said, Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your
good deeds, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. Matthew 5:16 And, Take heed to
yourselves, lest perchance your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and
worldly cares. Luke 21:34 And, Let your loins be girded about, and your lamps burning, and you
like men that wait for their Lord, when He returns from the wedding, that when He comes and
knocks, they may open to Him. Blessed is that servant whom his Lord, when He comes, shall
find so doing. Luke 12:35-36 And again, The servant who knows his Lord's will, and does it not,
shall be beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:47 And, Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the
things which I say? Luke 6:46 And again, But if the servant say in his heart, The Lord delays,
and begin to beat his fellow-servants, and to eat, and drink, and to be drunken, his Lord will
come in a day on which he does not expect Him, and shall cut him in sunder, and appoint his
portion with the hypocrites. Luke 12:45-46; Matthew 24:48-51 All such passages demonstrate
the independent will of man, and at the same time the counsel which God conveys to him, by
which He exhorts us to submit ourselves to Him, and seeks to turn us away from [the sin of]
unbelief against Him, without, however, in any way coercing us.
4. No doubt, if any one is unwilling to follow the Gospel itself, it is in his power [to reject it], but
it is not expedient. For it is in man's power to disobey God, and to forfeit what is good; but [such
conduct] brings no small amount of injury and mischief. And on this account Paul says, All
things are lawful to me, but all things are not expedient; 1 Corinthians 6:12 referring both to the
liberty of man, in which respect all things are lawful, God exercising no compulsion in regard to
him; and [by the expression] not expedient pointing out that we should not use our liberty as a
cloak of maliciousness, 1 Peter 2:16 for this is not expedient. And again he says, Speak every
man truth with his neighbour. Ephesians 4:25 And, Let no corrupt communication proceed out of
your mouth, neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor scurrility, which are not convenient, but
rather giving of thanks. Ephesians 4:29 And, For you were sometimes darkness, but now are you
light in the Lord; walk honestly as children of the light, not in rioting and drunkenness, not in
chambering and wantonness, not in anger and jealousy. And such were some of you; but you
have been washed, but you have been sanctified in the name of our Lord. 1 Corinthians 6:11 If
then it were not in our power to do or not to do these things, what reason had the apostle, and
much more the Lord Himself, to give us counsel to do some things, and to abstain from others?
But because man is possessed of free will from the beginning, and God is possessed of free will,
in whose likeness man was created, advice is always given to him to keep fast the good, which
thing is done by means of obedience to God.
5. And not merely in works, but also in faith, has God preserved the will of man free and under
his own control, saying, According to your faith be it unto you; Matthew 9:29 thus showing that
there is a faith specially belonging to man, since he has an opinion specially his own. And again,
All things are possible to him that believes; Mark 9:23 and, Go your way; and as you have
believed, so be it done unto you. Matthew 8:13 Now all such expressions demonstrate that man
is in his own power with respect to faith. And for this reason, he that believes in Him has eternal
life while he who believes not the Son has not eternal life, but the wrath of God shall remain
upon him. John 3:36 In the same manner therefore the Lord, both showing His own goodness,
and indicating that man is in his own free will and his own power, said to Jerusalem, How often
have I wished to gather your children together, as a hen [gathers] her chickens under her wings,
and you would not! Wherefore your house shall be left unto you desolate. Matthew 23:37-38
6. Those, again, who maintain the opposite to these [conclusions], do themselves present the
Lord as destitute of power, as if, forsooth, He were unable to accomplish what He willed; or, on
the other hand, as being ignorant that they were by nature material, as these men express it, and
such as cannot receive His immortality. But He should not, say they, have created angels of such
a nature that they were capable of transgression, nor men who immediately proved ungrateful
towards Him; for they were made rational beings, endowed with the power of examining and
judging, and were not [formed] as things irrational or of a [merely] animal nature, which can do
nothing of their own will, but are drawn by necessity and compulsion to what is good, in which
things there is one mind and one usage, working mechanically in one groove (inflexibiles et sine
judicio), who are incapable of being anything else except just what they had been created. But
upon this supposition, neither would what is good be grateful to them, nor communion with God
be precious, nor would the good be very much to be sought after, which would present itself
without their own proper endeavour, care, or study, but would be implanted of its own accord
and without their concern. Thus it would come to pass, that their being good would be of no
consequence, because they were so by nature rather than by will, and are possessors of good
spontaneously, not by choice; and for this reason they would not understand this fact, that good
is a comely thing, nor would they take pleasure in it. For how can those who are ignorant of good
enjoy it? Or what credit is it to those who have not aimed at it? And what crown is it to those
who have not followed in pursuit of it, like those victorious in the contest?
7. On this account, too, did the Lord assert that the kingdom of heaven was the portion of the
violent; and He says, The violent take it by force; Matthew 11:12 that is, those who by strength
and earnest striving are on the watch to snatch it away on the moment. On this account also Paul
the Apostle says to the Corinthians, Do you not know, that they who run in a racecourse, do all
indeed run, but one receives the prize? So run, that you may obtain. Every one also who engages
in the contest is temperate in all things: now these men [do it] that they may obtain a corruptible
crown, but we an incorruptible. But I so run, not as uncertainty; I fight, not as one beating the air;
but I make my body livid, and bring it into subjection, lest by any means, when preaching to
others, I may myself be rendered a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 This able wrestler, therefore,
exhorts us to the struggle for immortality, that we may be crowned, and may deem the crown
precious, namely, that which is acquired by our struggle, but which does not encircle us of its
own accord (sed non ultro coalitam). And the harder we strive, so much is it the more valuable;
while so much the more valuable it is, so much the more should we esteem it. And indeed those
things are not esteemed so highly which come spontaneously, as those which are reached by
much anxious care. Since, then, this power has been conferred upon us, both the Lord has taught
and the apostle has enjoined us the more to love God, that we may reach this [prize] for
ourselves by striving after it. For otherwise, no doubt, this our good would be [virtually]
irrational, because not the result of trial. Moreover, the faculty of seeing would not appear to be
so desirable, unless we had known what a loss it were to be devoid of sight; and health, too, is
rendered all the more estimable by an acquaintance with disease; light, also, by contrasting it
with darkness; and life with death. Just in the same way is the heavenly kingdom honourable to
those who have known the earthly one. But in proportion as it is more honourable, so much the
more do we prize it; and if we have prized it more, we shall be the more glorious in the presence
of God. The Lord has therefore endured all these things on our behalf, in order that we, having
been instructed by means of them all, may be in all respects circumspect for the time to come,
and that, having been rationally taught to love God, we may continue in His perfect love: for
God has displayed long-suffering in the case of man's apostasy; while man has been instructed
by means of it, as also the prophet says, Your own apostasy shall heal you; Jeremiah 2:19 God
thus determining all things beforehand for the bringing of man to perfection, for his edification,
and for the revelation of His dispensations, that goodness may both be made apparent, and
righteousness perfected, and that the Church may be fashioned after the image of His Son, and
that man may finally be brought to maturity at some future time, becoming ripe through such
privileges to see and comprehend God.
From Saint Irenaeus Against Heresies-freely available.
J.
Clifford
Active member
I've never been real fond of heresies. Nice post good information!
civic
Well-known member
no i lock arms with Jesus, the Apostles and the early church until augustine came along.
While you ignore all Augustine brought to both Calvinism and Roman catholicm
facts is Augustianism has more points in common with roman Catholicism
His contributions to Catholic doctrine include the necessity of infant baptism, the perpetual virginity of Mary, and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Add to that baptismal regeneration and original guilt
and Calvinism in common with Gnosticism
Further the fact is the church held to free will for 400 year before Augustine brought in determinism from his gnostic background
civic
Well-known member
as they say the apple ( calvin ) doesn't fall far from the tree ( RC )
Johann
Well-known member
Lol!as they say the apple ( calvin ) doesn't fall far from the tree ( RC )
I would view Augustine as the tree here the apples Roman Catholicism and Calvinismas they say the apple ( calvin ) doesn't fall far from the tree ( RC )
Johann
Well-known member
“Determinism” is a term widely used in philosophical and religious circles with varying connotations, depending upon the convictions of those employing the expression. This article will focus upon two of these theories.
Atheistic Determinism
A general definition of “determinism” contends that: “[A]ll events whatsoever are to be understood as the necessary outcome of certain causes and so may be regarded as instances of laws” (Harvey, 1964, 69). In this view, the universe is a conglomerate of causes and effects. How such began is never explained. Snow melts at a certain temperature, leaves fall to the earth, and objects grow older with the passing of time. Similarly, according to atheist Bertrand Russell, human beings, as strictly material objects, yield to causes over which they have no control (1957, 48ff). Hence there is no such thing as “free will”—supposedly!
Russell elsewhere wrote: “The first dogma which I came to disbelieve was that of free will” (1952, 79). He wrote as though he volitionally changed from belief to disbelief—which, from the nature of the case, suggests “free will.” His daughter later wrote: “‘Do we have free will?’ He said ‘no,’ writing philosophically; but he acted ‘yes’ and wrote ‘yes’ when his moral passions were engaged” (Tait, 1975, 184). If one is enslaved by the determinism of natural law, why chastise believers for their “foolish” faith, and urge them to abandon such since, according to this philosophy, they haven’t the “will” to alter their conviction? Every line they write is afflicted with the seizure of inconsistency.
Follow the “no free will” position to its logical consequence, as celebrated attorney Clarence Darrow did, and one is forced to conclude there is no human responsibility for any action. In 1902 Darrow addressed the inmates of the Cook County Jail (Chicago), asserting: “There is no such thing as crime as the word is generally understood. ...The people here can no more help being here than the people outside can avoid being outside” (Weinberg, 1957, 3). What kind of lunacy is this? What sort of world would “determinism” fashion?
Calvinistic Determinism
John Calvin occasionally used the expression “free will,” though he confessed he hesitated to do so lest others conclude that man “of his own nature” might be able to “aim at good either in wish or actual pursuit” (1975, 1.265). The reformer imposed his own definition on “free will,” contending that, “none but the elect have a will inclined to good.” Again, “a right will is derived not from man himself,” but only from God (1.257). When God “converts” a person, Calvin alleged, he destroys man’s depraved will and “substitutes a good will from himself” (1.256). Thus, as one modern Calvinist argues: “Human free will is a myth” (Storms, 1984, 80-81).
Problems With Theistic Determinism
There are serious problems with the dogma of “theistic determination,” i.e., the notion that God orchestrates the choices we humans make.
First, there is the difficulty this theory creates for the biblical affirmation of the goodness of God (Romans 2:4). Jehovah is a being of absolute holiness (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8), thus he is too “pure” to tolerate evil (Habakkuk 1:13). Any dogma, therefore, that casts a reflection upon the goodness of the Creator is corrupt. One Calvinist argues: “f a man gets drunk and shoots his family, it was the will of God that he should do it” (Clark, 1961, 221). What conclusion necessarily follows from that statement? Whose fault is it when men do wrong? Can there even be any “wrong,” if there is no free will? How can God possibly condemn human beings for evil (e.g., murder, adultery, etc.) if he himself “determines the choices” they make? This ideology makes no sense.
Second, the denial of human free will is in conflict with multiple biblical texts of clearest import.
Christ personified Jerusalem as one who had persecuted the Lord’s prophets. He had sought to rescue them from a coming destruction, but they “would not” (Matthew 23:37). They did not will to change their lives!
In one of his parables, Christ pictured rebellious sinners as a “prodigal son,” yet who eventually declared: “I will arise and go to my father ... I will say ... I have sinned” (Luke 15:18). If man is void of free will, this illustration is woefully misleading.
In John’s Gospel Jesus declared that the OT Scriptures pointed the way to him; but, he cautioned, “you will not come to me that you may have life” (5:40). Does language have meaning?
He later announced that if anyone “wills” to obey his teaching, he can know whether his message is authentic or not (7:17).
The NT concludes with this gracious invitation: “[H]e that is thirsty, let him come; he that will, let him take of the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17).
These passages, and scores of others, powerfully refute the “no free will” heresy.
Third, beyond explicit statements of human free will, numerous texts logically imply both the ability and the urgency of man to exercise his personal will power in submitting to divine authority through obedience. Note:
Every command from God implies both the ability and necessity for the recipient to submit to the divine injunction. It is nonsense to suggest that the Lord commands a duty to which the subject cannot possibly yield.
The Bible overflows with warnings for those who neglect to “give earnest heed” to divine obedience (Hebrews 2:1ff). Why caution a person against doing what he could not do even if he so wished?
If man cannot exercise his will in obeying (or disobeying) the Creator, why should he ever feel a sense of guilt—as did Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:7-8), Judas and Pilate (Matthew 27:4, 24), or Paul (1 Timothy 1:13)?
And what shall be said of the numberless texts that contain either “curses” or “blessings” in response to human activity (cf. Deuteronomy 27:12-13), if indeed a man cannot “incline himself either to good or evil,” as Calvin alleged (op. cit., 1.229).
The Doctrine of "Determinism" -- What Is It?
"Determinism" is a popular dogma - both in the skeptical community and in the religious environment. It has no support in either logic or scripture. Study this topic with us.
christiancourier.com
Johann
Well-known member
Augustinianism, based on the teachings of Augustine of Hippo, shares several points in common with Roman Catholicism. Some of the Catholic beliefs associated with Augustine include:
The canon of Scripture includes the Septuagint Old Testament canon (deuterocanonicals, Apocrypha).
Emphasis on authoritative Tradition.
Belief in baptismal regeneration and grace.
Affirmation of the necessity of baptism for salvation.
Belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist (Lord's Supper).
Recognition of the Mass as a sacrifice.
Acknowledgment of the necessity of the Lord's Supper for salvation.
Belief in purgatory and praying for the departed.
Emphasis on the communion of saints and saintly intercession.
Recognition of the authority of the Catholic Church and apostolic succession.
Acceptance of the possibility of falling from grace.
Practice of the sacrament of penance.
Belief in Mary's perpetual virginity
Augustine's theological teachings, which form the basis of Augustinianism, are highly regarded by both Roman Catholics and Protestants. While Calvinists and Lutherans, among others, hold Augustine in high esteem, some theological differences exist between Augustinianism and Protestant beliefs. Augustinianism emphasizes doctrines like total depravity and divine sovereignty, highlighting the role of God's grace in salvation and emphasizing predestination
These theological nuances have led to distinctions between Augustinianism and certain Protestant denominations.
In summary, Augustinianism aligns closely with Roman Catholic beliefs on various theological aspects, reflecting a shared doctrinal foundation rooted in Augustine's teachings.
Bingo
Augustinianism aligns closely with Roman Catholic beliefs on various theological aspects, reflecting a shared doctrinal foundation rooted in Augustine's teachings.
Catholic Fidelity
https://www.catholicfidelity.com/st-augustine-and-catholic-beliefs
St. Augustine and Catholic Beliefs
St. Augustine is one of the greatest of catholic saints. He is revered by Western christians both Roman Catholic and Protestant, and especially by Calvinists and Lutherans. Dr. R. C. Sproul, a leading Calvinist theologian and writer in the U.S. has written that he (Sproul) is an "Augustinian".
Johann
Well-known member
Absolutely correct brother. Calvin-ism is a dangerous doctrine that leaves its victims helpless-and a struggle on the deathbed-were I part of the elect?
I listen to Leighton Flowers lately-and it is as if the floodgates of heaven is opening to me.
Shalom
J.
Glad to hear it
Johann
Well-known member
We are here to make a stand for truth and expose dangerous heresies.
J.
civic
Well-known member
me too.
Johann
Well-known member
What's the problem brother? Do you still have thoughts that I may be a Calvinist? I am more of a Provisionist-at the moment.me too.
civic
Well-known member
I was agreeing with both of you lol. I lean the same way.
So. We can play the guilt by by association game as well. Your a synergist, the RC is synergistic so your have more in common with the RC and therefore Augustine than we do.
All Catholics say that. Another thing in common with the RC.no i lock arms with Jesus, the Apostles and the early church until augustine came along.
Do you agree with the early church on baptismal regeneration?
civic
Well-known member
no and I never claimed they got everything right. I was making the point that freedom of the will was the standard belief in the early church and not total depravity.
