Is anyone else a Seer?

[Complete]

Let them hear. Salvation is OF THE JEWS. Since the majority of Jews remained in Gentile lands (Assyria, Babylonia, and lands in-between) even after given permission by king Cyrus in 538 BC to return to the holy land, only a remnant returned. Remember that only Judah and Benjamin were captured by Babylon and the reason why God sent His salvation which is OF THE JEWS to Gentiles is because Jews lived in Gentile lands. By living in Gentile lands these Jews were unaware God had sent Israel's Redeemer, Lord, and King to Israel in Jesus Christ and them as covenant Israel nevertheless needed to receive the news through the Lord's apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists and teachers that Israel's Messiah had come. They, too, were waiting for their Promised Redeemer

Hello again, @jeremiah1five,

The Jews of the diaspora, as with their countrymen living in the land, heard the gospel message through the ministry of either Christ Himself, or by those who had heard Christ preach personally, i.e., the Apostles chosen by the Lord Jesus Christ either during his earthly ministry or when risen from the dead during the forty years of the Acts period. So they were without excuse.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hello @jeremiah1five,

I agree with what you have to say concerning the covenants both old and new. I also agree with many other things that you say, but not what you say concerning gentile believers.

The Lord Jesus Christ said, 'salvation is of the Jew.' in His conversation with the Syrophoenician woman: yet in Acts 28:28, after the elders of the Jews of the diaspora failed to acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah, it is said by Paul, following reference to the prophetic words of Isaiah 6, that, 'salvation is sent to the Gentiles'.

That must also be believed and received, @jeremiah1five.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles named or mentioned in any of the Hebrew covenants when God made them. Any interpretation that seeks to add Gentiles after the fact and after God closed each covenant is an attempt at "breaking Scripture," which Jesus said cannot be done. So, it is the interpretation that is in error.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hello again, @jeremiah1five,

The Jews of the diaspora, as with their countrymen living in the land, heard the gospel message through the ministry of either Christ Himself, or by those who had heard Christ preach personally, i.e., the Apostles chosen by the Lord Jesus Christ either during his earthly ministry or when risen from the dead during the forty years of the Acts period. So they were without excuse.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Christ never left the Promised Land. This is why He sent His twelve disciples in Matthew ten to go only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. They were forbidden to speak or minister to non-Hebrew Gentiles. But because a "Gentile" might be as a Samaritan half-Jew and half-Gentile they are STILL Abraham's seed and as such be told about Jesus back in Israel/Jerusalem.

And although a group of Jews in a small part of the empire may be seen as rejecting their Messiah, let's not forget that it was the religious leaders of the Sanhedrin (of which Saul was rabbi and Pharisee) that rejected their Messiah, KNEW Jesus was their Messiah, but killed Him anyway because it was better according to the high priest that "one die for the nation than all the people perish." These same religious leaders which amounted to 70 men in the Sanhedrin a mere weeks or months later became obedient to the faith (Acts 6:8.) So, what may in your eyes be a "total" rejection of Messiah by Jews, they are STILL Abraham's seed and as per covenant - especially the Mosaic Covenant - will in time "all Israel shall be saved."

 

[Complete]

Hello @jeremiah1five,

The whole purpose of my response to you was concerning the words,' salvation is sent to the Gentiles', in Acts 28:28. This you choose not to address. It is no longer of the Jew only, as it was when our Lord said, 'salvation is of the Jew' in John 4:22.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[TomL]

I accept Jesus' words that "Salvation is of THE JEWS."

NOT the Gentiles.

Do you also accept this

The gentiles were grafted in and the Jews for the most part cuttoff

 

[TomL]

Hello @TomL,

With respect to @jeremiah1five, I don't think agreement can ever be reached with him regarding certain issues, because he has a view of Scripture regarding them which is entirely his own. Please look at an exchange between he and I below:-

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/whats-love-got-to-do-with-it.623/page-4#post-81647

[replies:- #63 - #66]

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes I know. He does not believe all scripture and intense bias keeps him from acknowledgement of truth.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hello @jeremiah1five,

The whole purpose of my response to you was concerning the words,' salvation is sent to the Gentiles', in Acts 28:28. This you choose not to address. It is no longer of the Jew only, as it was when our Lord said, 'salvation is of the Jew' in John 4:22.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

What does that "salvation is sent to the Gentiles" even mean?

First and foremost, Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken." This means that what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures cannot be changed or added to or subtracted from. Do you understand this? This prevents any attempt by man to mutilate, molest, altar, what God had already said as written by the prophets.

But obviously so-called Christians do not believe Jesus' words nor the solid doctrine behind it.

Second, since "salvation sent to the Gentiles" doesn't mean Gentiles will be saved it must have another meaning. And once this is understood then it must be determined which Gentiles are being referred to here. Does the text refer to circumcised, non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentile proselytes or uncircumcised non-Hebrew, non-covenant Gentile God-Fearers, which both being Gentile excludes them from any of the Hebrew covenants God made with the Hebrew people, first with Abram, then inherited by Isaac, then inherited by Jacob, and later God makes covenant with Jacob's descendants, a people He personally delivered by a mighty hand from their bondage in Egypt.

So, let me ask you...do you understand Jesus' words that Scripture cannot be broken? And do you understand THAT Scripture cannot be broken (added to, subtracted from, or changed)?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Do you also accept this

The gentiles were grafted in and the Jews for the most part cutoff

No, I don't accept YOUR interpretation of the Scripture on this subject.

Two things you fail to accept and that is, one, God called Hebrews an Olive tree.

the second thing you fail to understand is that NOWHERE in the Hebrew Scripture does God call Gentiles an Olive tree, or a "wild" Olive tree.

Any interpretation of any New Covenant passage that violates these truths must be rejected.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Do you also accept this

The gentiles were grafted in and the Jews for the most part cutoff

Nope on both parts.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes I know. He does not believe all scripture and intense bias keeps him from acknowledgement of truth.

On the contrary, I believe ALL Scripture.

It's your false Constantinian Gentile interpretation that I reject as lies.

 

[Complete]

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[jeremiah1five]

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[L.A.M.B.]

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YE ARE **ALL ONE ** IN CHRIST JESUS.

29 And IF * YE* BE CHRIST'S, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

To say otherwise is to deny the validity of the word of God in the N. T. or to deny you are " IN CHRIST "!

God be the judge.............

 

[TomL]

On the contrary, I believe ALL Scripture.

It's your false Constantinian Gentile interpretation that I reject as lies.

No you don't. You reject the New covenant.

 

[TomL]

Nope on both parts.

See you do not believe scripture

Romans 11:19–24 (KJV 1900) — 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

[mikesw]

See you do not believe scripture

Romans 11:19–24 (KJV 1900) — 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

In another thread, I shared the point about raising up offspring to Abraham from the stones. That was Jesus speaking. So even a person who did not trust Paul would realize that non-Israel offspring could be created and be related to Abraham. No answer was given to this obvious way of someone being an enjoyer of the Abrahamic promise apart from being Jewish. Of course, your passage is obvious too. You are not going to break off Israel-people branches to graft in Israel-people branches. They would have all been natural branches then -

 

[TomL]

In another thread, I shared the point about raising up offspring to Abraham from the stones. That was Jesus speaking. So even a person who did not trust Paul would realize that non-Israel offspring could be created and be related to Abraham. No answer was given to this obvious way of someone being an enjoyer of the Abrahamic promise apart from being Jewish. Of course, your passage is obvious too. You are not going to break off Israel-people branches to graft in Israel-people branches. They would have all been natural branches then -

Yes, that person seems to be of the same mind which was in the Jews of the first century who imagined themselves entitled, and superior but could not imagine themselves being cut off.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YE ARE **ALL ONE ** IN CHRIST JESUS.

29 And IF * YE* BE CHRIST'S, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

To say otherwise is to deny the validity of the word of God in the N. T. or to deny you are " IN CHRIST "!

God be the judge.............

Scripture cannot be broken. A closer look at the text shows Saul writing to Jewish Christians in the Galatian region and that the Jews were under the Law and the Law was schoolmaster to bring the children of Israel to Christ and that these Jewish Christians were very concerned as to their standing in the Abrahamic Covenant that they informed Saul of this concern and in writing back told them there should be no concern for if "ye (Jews) are Christ's, then you are STILL Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise." Gentiles were never under the Law or schoolmaster and were never heirs to the Abrahamic Promises.

The Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17 does not name or mention non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant which is between God, Abraham, and his seed. To add Gentiles is to violate history and Scripture. Gentiles do not come from the seed of Abraham.

The Mosaic Covenant is between God, Moses, and the children of Israel and there are no non-Hebrew Gentiles named or mentioned in this covenant made at Mount Sinai. To include Gentiles in the Mosaic Covenant is to violate Scripture.

The New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah and fulfilled and instituted by Christ is between God and the House of Israel and Judah. There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles named or mentioned in this covenant as Gentiles are NOT the House of Israel of Judah, and to add Gentiles after the covenant was signed, sealed, and delivered by Christ to and for the Children of Israel is to violate Scripture.

And Scripture cannot be broken.

You're infected with false Constantinian Gentile teaching. This is the "strong delusion" God promised to send upon the earth.
God has NO COVENANT with non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.
All three Hebrew covenants are between God and the Hebrew people.

Scripture cannot be broken.

If you can show me any passage in the Old Testament of the high priest leaving Israel and going to the Gentiles that surrounded Israel and offering sacrifices and praying for Gentiles, then you may have an argument. The Mosaic sacrificial system was given to and for the children of Israel, and Christ, as High Priest did not break with Scripture and die to atone Gentiles. He atoned for the sins of the Hebrew people as per covenant and prophesy.

Christ died for the sins of the children of Israel under the Law.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:3–5.

To add Gentiles after the fact is to violate the Word of God which cannot be broken.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No you don't. You reject the New covenant.

No, I understand and believe in Scripture.

Scripture cannot be broken.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

The Word of God.

Just as the animal was sacrificed for the sins of the children of Israel on a yearly basis, so too, was the Lamb of God sacrificed for the sins of the children of Israel, a people under the Law.

To add to Scripture things not in God's Word violates Scripture, so your false belief that Christ died for a "nothing people" is a lie. Saul says above Christ died for the sins of the children of Israel to redeem THEM from sin.

 

[jeremiah1five]

See you do not believe scripture

Romans 11:19–24 (KJV 1900) — 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Post any Scripture from the Old Testament saying that Gentiles are an Olive tree, or a "wild" Olive tree and you'll have an argument.

Psst...you won't find one.

Therefore, your interpretation that Gentiles are an Olive tree let alone a "wild" Olive tree is a lie.