Irresistible Grace

[TedT]

You hold to a personal pre-existence of man?

I do.

I have accepted that all spirits created in the image of GOD were created before the foundation of the world.

But since the word pre-existence is a misnomer in that nothing can exist before it exists, I call the theology of our existence before the creation of the physical universe our Pre-Conception Existence (PCE) theology or pre-earth existence.

 

[brightfame52]

Thats because your looking through a Calvinist lens..

Thats your opinion

 

[Selah]

Like I said, your beliefs are weird to me, the elect are sinners, then they are saved from their sins by the Grace of God

Yes, the Elect are saved by Grace. Why? …because they have faith; they believe in the Savior of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, the Elect are saved by Grace. Why? …because they have faith; they believe in the Savior of the world.

They are saved because they have faith ? Thats works merit salvation. When the elect are saved, God saves them from a evil spiritually dead condition, they have no faith, in fact they are full of unbelief.

 

[Selah]

They are saved because they have faith ? Thats works merit salvation. When the elect are saved, God saves them from a evil spiritually dead condition, they have no faith, in fact they are full of unbelief.

Faith is not a work.
Those chosen always had faith.

 

[TedT]

So do you believe the elect were sinful, yes or no please ? Did they need to be saved from their sins ?

For myself, I agree totally that the earthly elect, (not the angelic elect, 1 Timothy 5:21), are all sinners sown into this world to live with the reprobate demons as an aid for their sanctification, Matt 13:27-30.

 

[Selah]

For myself, I agree totally that the earthly elect, (not the angelic elect, 1 Timothy 5:21), are all sinners sown into this world to live with the reprobate demons as an aid for their sanctification, Matt 13:27-30.

So Jesus came to destroy Sin (death). Now, let’s see now, who is that man of Sin? It’s none other than Satan (the devil, the son of perdition).

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NKJV) 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

 

[TedT]

brightfame52 said:
So do you believe the elect were sinful, yes or no please ?

Question #1–No. (not habitual sinners)

As habitual as any sinner pre-grace:
Isaiah 53:6
We all like sheep have gone astray, each one has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.

John 8:47
Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Those who do not hear are the non-elect.

The elect are HIS sheep who can / do go astray into sinfulness:
Berean Literal Bible
1 Peter 2:5 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

 

[Selah]

brightfame52 said:
So do you believe the elect were sinful, yes or no please ?



As habitual as any sinner pre-grace:
Isaiah 53:6
We all like sheep have gone astray, each one has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.

John 8:47
Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Those who do not hear are the non-elect.

The elect are HIS sheep who can / do go astray into sinfulness:
Berean Literal Bible
1 Peter 2:5 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Yep, the elect can go astray. Consider Saul (who was a chosen vessel). He was lost as a goose, out there persecuting Christians. … but again, he was chosen before the foundation of the world.

 

[TedT]

So Jesus came to destroy Sin (death). Now, let’s see now, who is that man of Sin? It’s none other than Satan (the devil, the son of perdition).

Exactly! But he cannot be destroyed until the sinful elect are sanctified and made holy or they would be pulled up by the judgement upon all sin along with him: Matt 13:27-30.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is not a work.
Those chosen always had faith.

This is error. Did Paul a chosen one always have faith ? 1 Tim 1:13

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

 

[brightfame52]

For myself, I agree totally that the earthly elect, (not the angelic elect, 1 Timothy 5:21), are all sinners sown into this world to live with the reprobate demons as an aid for their sanctification, Matt 13:27-30.

You also have very strange views friend

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is not a work.
Those chosen always had faith.

It faith is a good quality that pleases God, so you advocate merit salvation, man is saved because of a good quality God sees in him that pleases Him.

 

[Selah]

This is error. Did Paul a chosen one always have faith ? 1 Tim 1:13

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Yep, he did. …before the foundation of the world.

 

[TedT]

You also have very strange views friend

A bit heterodox but solidly based upon and driven by scripture....just not on the orthodox interpretations of scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

Yep, he did. …before the foundation of the world.

Wow, friend your beliefs are really weird

 

[brightfame52]

A bit heterodox but solidly based upon and driven by scripture....just not on the orthodox interpretations of scripture.

Both of you have weird views in my reading them.

 

[TomL]

I do.

I have accepted that all spirits created in the image of GOD were created before the foundation of the world.

But since the word pre-existence is a misnomer in that nothing can exist before it exists, I call the theology of our existence before the creation of the physical universe our Pre-Conception Existence (PCE) theology or pre-earth existence.

I do not, as I see no biblical support for such a view.

 

[TomL]

I still see this as a attack on the sovereign reign of Grace through Christ Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life[Salvation] by Jesus Christ our Lord.

As always you run from scripture

Grace is not irresistible

Hebrews 12:15 (LEB) — 15 Take care that no one falls short of the grace of God; that no one growing up like a root of bitterness causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

Acts 7:51 (LEB) — 51 “You stiff-necked people and uncircumcised in hearts and in your ears! You constantly resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so also do you!

2 Corinthians 6:1 (LEB) — 1 Now because we are fellow workers, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain.

Hebrews 10:29 (LEB) — 29 How much worse punishment do you think the person will be considered worthy of who treats with disdain the Son of God and who considers ordinary the blood of the covenant by which he was made holy and who insults the Spirit of grace?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Thats your opinion

It’s the truth. Everything you say is based on fatalistic truth