Inspiration?

[praise_yeshua]

I've seen several comments lately relative to "inspiration" of the Scriptures.

"Inspiration" is a excellent subject of study. I believe most people don't really understand what "inspiration" means. I've often begun discussing this subject by asking others to define "inspiration".

I will start by saying, your average English Bible has 3 (three) classification of "words" contained therein....

1. Words of men.
2. Inspired words of men.
3. "Thus saith the Lord" (Dictation).

The "theological" subject of "inspiration" primarily revolves around 2 Timothy 3:16.

2Ti 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness (NET Bible)

There are basically two primary words associated with the English word "Scripture" that come to English from Greek.

γραφή (graphe)
γράμμα (gramma)

With "graphe" having a much larger representation within the canonical NT than "gramma". Verse 15 uses "gramma" relative to the "holy writings".

2Ti 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (NET)

There is a reason that the NET translates "gramma" as "holy writings" in verse 15. It is because gramma is historically used to references "documents" in Greek. These documents can be either "holy writings" or most any "legal document". Where "graphe" is distinctly "inspired words" themselves.

There is a contrast being made here by Paul in verse 15 to verse 16 wherein "every word/letter" of Scripture is literally inspired (Graphe). Timothy had known of various "holy documents" from his very youth. (Greek OT). It is my belief and I think I can convince you that Paul is appealing to Timothy to literally study to know the very "inspired words/letters" of God in CONTRAST among all the various "holy writings" Timothy had known.

Which is why I started this thread with the various classifications of words that are contained in the average English Bible.

Can you define inspiration?

 

[praise_yeshua]

@civic @synergy @TomL @Frank Russell @Rockson ........

 

[Frank Russell]

Can you define inspiration?

Inspiration by God in one translation is God breathed in another.

Since the Holy Spirit by nature is the breath of God, it means God breathed, and the writers were moved.

There are illustrations in the text where the author while inspired, completely misunderstood God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Inspiration by God in one translation is God breathed in another.

Can you elaborate by explaining the difference between "inspiration" and "God breathed" in your comments.

Since the Holy Spirit by nature is the breath of God, it means God breathed, and the writers were moved.

There are illustrations in the text where the author while inspired, completely misunderstood God.

Example?

Translations are not inspired. If you believe they are, then establish how they are.

 

[Frank Russell]

Can you elaborate by explaining the difference between "inspiration" and "God breathed" in your comments.



Example?

Translations are not inspired. If you believe they are, then establish how they are.

God breathed is in the KJV, Inspiration is in the NIV, that's about the only difference.

Translations are not inspired, I agree.

Example, when Jeremiah says God is like a dried up well.

 

[Frank Russell]

Example?

Another example is Paul admitting that he and all others (we) see God through a dirty window.

Paul is admitting that even he, the scripture writer, misunderstands God.

 

[synergy]

I've seen several comments lately relative to "inspiration" of the Scriptures.

"Inspiration" is a excellent subject of study. I believe most people don't really understand what "inspiration" means. I've often begun discussing this subject by asking others to define "inspiration".

I will start by saying, your average English Bible has 3 (three) classification of "words" contained therein....

1. Words of men.
2. Inspired words of men.
3. "Thus saith the Lord" (Dictation).

The "theological" subject of "inspiration" primarily revolves around 2 Timothy 3:16.

2Ti 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness (NET Bible)

There are basically two primary words associated with the English word "Scripture" that come to English from Greek.

γραφή (graphe)
γράμμα (gramma)

With "graphe" having a much larger representation within the canonical NT than "gramma". Verse 15 uses "gramma" relative to the "holy writings".

2Ti 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (NET)

There is a reason that the NET translates "gramma" as "holy writings" in verse 15. It is because gramma is historically used to references "documents" in Greek. These documents can be either "holy writings" or most any "legal document". Where "graphe" is distinctly "inspired words" themselves.

There is a contrast being made here by Paul in verse 15 to verse 16 wherein "every word/letter" of Scripture is literally inspired (Graphe). Timothy had known of various "holy documents" from his very youth. (Greek OT). It is my belief and I think I can convince you that Paul is appealing to Timothy to literally study to know the very "inspired words/letters" of God in CONTRAST among all the various "holy writings" Timothy had known.

Which is why I started this thread with the various classifications of words that are contained in the average English Bible.

Can you define inspiration?

(2 Tim 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed (θεοπνευστος), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

θεοπνευστος is a compound word in Greek made up of θεο (God) and πνευστος (spirited). The word itself translates to God spirited or God breathed, very similar to when the OT Prophets orally spoke out the word of God. In this case it is the written words (γραφη) of the Greek OT Holy Scripture (LXX) that are God spirited or God breathed. Paul places the written words of the Greek OT Scripture (LXX) on the same level as the oral words of the OT Prophets.

Of course the NT is also God breathed but Paul is not one to toot his own horn.

 

[TomL]

@civic @synergy @TomL @Frank Russell @Rockson ........

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

My Bible Word Study
Lemma

θεόπνευστος theopneustos inspired by God

LXGNTLEX inspired by God

or God breathed

Man is moved by the Spirit to write

2 Peter 1:20–21 (KJV 1900) — 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Grace ambassador]

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Totally agree:

If The Scriptures we have in our hands today are not "Pure, Preserved (Psalm 12:6-7 AV),
And Inspired Of God," then being "Profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:..." and:

"...That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
(2 Timothy 3:16 AV)...

...are All just moot points, and we have no hope, eh?

Amen.

More about God's Pure, Preserved, and Inspired Word Of Truth.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Totally agree:

If The Scriptures we have in our hands today are not "Pure, Preserved (Psalm 12:6-7 AV),
And Inspired Of God," then being "Profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:..." and:

"...That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
(2 Timothy 3:16 AV)...

...are All just moot points, and we have no hope, eh?

Amen.

More about God's Pure, Preserved, and Inspired Word Of Truth.

You're attributing inspiration to a flawed translation as a whole. This reflects poorly upon our perfect God. I understand your desire but it is misplaced. Men made poor choices relative to the sources. This still happens today.

Can you learn the source language and determine their value yourself? If you can, which you can, then why not?

 

[praise_yeshua]

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

My Bible Word Study
Lemma

θεόπνευστος theopneustos inspired by God

LXGNTLEX inspired by God

or God breathed

Man is moved by the Spirit to write

2 Peter 1:20–21 (KJV 1900) — 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Did Peter ever get it wrong? We know he did. He had a private interpretation.

Yet, the anchor was there to judge his position.

 

[praise_yeshua]

(2 Tim 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed (θεοπνευστος), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

θεοπνευστος is a compound word in Greek made up of θεο (God) and πνευστος (spirited). The word itself translates to God spirited or God breathed, very similar to when the OT Prophets orally spoke out the word of God. In this case it is the written words (γραφη) of the Greek OT Holy Scripture (LXX) that are God spirited or God breathed. Paul places the written words of the Greek OT Scripture (LXX) on the same level as the oral words of the OT Prophets.

Of course the NT is also God breathed but Paul is not one to toot his own horn.

I agree completely. Paul would have never said his writings were Scripture. Yet, they certainly are just that.

Act 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

 

[praise_yeshua]

Another example is Paul admitting that he and all others (we) see God through a dirty window.

Paul is admitting that even he, the scripture writer, misunderstands God.

No. He is admitting he doesn't know it all. Not that he misunderstood what he does see though the tinted glass.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God breathed is in the KJV, Inspiration is in the NIV, that's about the only difference.

Translations are not inspired, I agree.

Example, when Jeremiah says God is like a dried up well.

Okay.
Words spoken come from breath.

Not sure about Jeremiah. What verses?

 

[Frank Russell]

Okay.
Words spoken come from breath.

Not sure about Jeremiah. What verses?

Why is my pain unending and my wound grievous and incurable? You are to me like a deceptive brook, like a spring that fails. (Jeremiah 15:18)

“’How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Jeremiah 8:8)

Even Jeremiah was told by God that the law was mishandled by those entrusted to copy it. Even Jeremiah thought God was deceptive in nature.

 

[Frank Russell]

No. He is admitting he doesn't know it all. Not that he misunderstood what he does see though the tinted glass.

Right now we do not know what we are, but when we see Him, we will know as we are known.

This is illustrating that revelation cannot be full at this time, far more is to come through becoming what God has in store.

 

[TomL]

Did Peter ever get it wrong? We know he did. He had a private interpretation.

Yet, the anchor was there to judge his position.

Get what he wrote wrong?

I don't believe so

Got any examples if that is what you mean

 

[TomL]

Totally agree:

If The Scriptures we have in our hands today are not "Pure, Preserved (Psalm 12:6-7 AV),
And Inspired Of God," then being "Profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:..." and:

"...That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
(2 Timothy 3:16 AV)...

...are All just moot points, and we have no hope, eh?

Amen.

More about God's Pure, Preserved, and Inspired Word Of Truth.

I believe there is a matter of faith here

Would God not want a record of his truth to exist?

I cannot see that He would not.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Get what he wrote wrong?

I don't believe so

Got any examples if that is what you mean

Peter promoted Mathias among the twelve and quoted conflated Psalm 109:8 (Greek OT. The Greek word ἐπισκοπή is only found in the Greek source. Not one single Hebrew source has such a meaning) and Psalm 69:25.

Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his office let another take.

Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

[TomL]

Peter promoted Mathias among the twelve and quoted conflated Psalm 109:8 (Greek OT. The Greek word ἐπισκοπή is only found in the Greek source. Not one single Hebrew source has such a meaning) and Psalm 69:25.

Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his office let another take.

Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

yes but that was not Peter writing scripture