God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES

civic said:
When a person asks questions 90% of the time as a response and first not attempt to exegete and engage with the passage and asks questions but seldom if ever when asked a question responds there is a huge problem . Several Calvinists on the old forum used that same tactic all the time . They are the actual ones interrogating
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Not what I have observed thus far-it's the other way around.


Give Ol' Corrie a listen-we are all a work in progress and have the scars to prove it-right?
 
Presby02 said:
Sorry. Non-sequitar

God's providence, assuming you know what it is, does not use force nor is force necessary.
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One's will, assuming you know what it is, is forced when not aligned with the forces around it. No one, in the verses mentioned above, voluntarily allowed his will to be aligned with the situation/circumstances around him that God forced upon them. Any alignment happened afterwards when people willfully learned their lesson.
 
synergy said:
One's will, assuming you know what it is, is forced when not aligned with the forces around it. No one, in the verses mentioned above, voluntarily allowed his will to be aligned with the situation/circumstances around him that God forced upon them. Any alignment happened afterwards when people willfully learned their lesson.
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There is no will in Calvinism , no freedom, no choosing , no humility , no faith etc

Jesus words if any man is willing is complete nonsense in that systematic.
 
civic said:
There is no will in Calvinism , no freedom, no choosing , no humility , no faith etc

Jesus words if any man is willing is complete nonsense in that systematic.
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Heresies of the will have been around for many years. Monothelitism is one example. Calvinism is a modern day heresy of human will.
 
Johann said:
I concur-but it wasn't addressed to you @Presby02
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Correcting others, especially within the Christian community, requires a delicate balance of truth and love. Here's how you might approach correcting Christians who engage in slander against their Calvinist brothers or sisters, along with some relevant Scriptures:

  1. Speak the Truth in Love: Ephesians 4:15 instructs believers to "speak the truth in love." When addressing slanderous behavior, it's essential to communicate truthfully and respectfully, avoiding harshness or condemnation.
  2. Address the Issue Privately: Matthew 18:15 outlines a process for addressing conflict within the church, beginning with a private conversation between the parties involved. If you witness slanderous behavior, consider reaching out to the individual privately to express your concerns and offer correction in a spirit of humility and grace.
  3. Encourage Unity and Edification: Romans 14:19 urges believers to "make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification." Remind fellow Christians of the importance of unity within the body of Christ and encourage them to build up, rather than tear down, their brothers and sisters in the faith.
  4. Model Christ-like Behavior: 1 Peter 2:21 encourages believers to follow in the footsteps of Christ, who "when he was reviled, he did not revile in return." By modeling Christ-like behavior in our own interactions and responses, we can set an example for others and contribute to a culture of grace and reconciliation within the church.
  5. Pray for Reconciliation and Restoration: James 5:16 encourages believers to "pray for each other so that you may be healed." Lift up both the slanderer and the one slandered in prayer, asking God to bring about reconciliation, repentance, and restoration in their relationship.
In addressing slander within the Christian community, it's crucial to approach the situation with humility, wisdom, and a commitment to biblical principles. By speaking the truth in love, addressing the issue privately, encouraging unity and edification, modeling Christ-like behavior, and praying for reconciliation, we can contribute to the health and unity of the body of Christ.

There is simply no need to criticize or slander our Calvinist brothers and sisters who are IN Christ Jesus.
 
Johann said:
Correcting others, especially within the Christian community, requires a delicate balance of truth and love. Here's how you might approach correcting Christians who engage in slander against their Calvinist brothers or sisters, along with some relevant Scriptures:

  1. Speak the Truth in Love: Ephesians 4:15 instructs believers to "speak the truth in love." When addressing slanderous behavior, it's essential to communicate truthfully and respectfully, avoiding harshness or condemnation.
  2. Address the Issue Privately: Matthew 18:15 outlines a process for addressing conflict within the church, beginning with a private conversation between the parties involved. If you witness slanderous behavior, consider reaching out to the individual privately to express your concerns and offer correction in a spirit of humility and grace.
  3. Encourage Unity and Edification: Romans 14:19 urges believers to "make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification." Remind fellow Christians of the importance of unity within the body of Christ and encourage them to build up, rather than tear down, their brothers and sisters in the faith.
  4. Model Christ-like Behavior: 1 Peter 2:21 encourages believers to follow in the footsteps of Christ, who "when he was reviled, he did not revile in return." By modeling Christ-like behavior in our own interactions and responses, we can set an example for others and contribute to a culture of grace and reconciliation within the church.
  5. Pray for Reconciliation and Restoration: James 5:16 encourages believers to "pray for each other so that you may be healed." Lift up both the slanderer and the one slandered in prayer, asking God to bring about reconciliation, repentance, and restoration in their relationship.
In addressing slander within the Christian community, it's crucial to approach the situation with humility, wisdom, and a commitment to biblical principles. By speaking the truth in love, addressing the issue privately, encouraging unity and edification, modeling Christ-like behavior, and praying for reconciliation, we can contribute to the health and unity of the body of Christ.

There is simply no need to criticize or slander our Calvinist brothers and sisters who are IN Christ Jesus.
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Confronting false teaching is not slander . The article you quoted is good.
 
civic said:
Confronting false teaching is not slander . The article you quoted is good.
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The way and manner it is done here comes perilously close to be cantankerous and disrespectful-should we "mark and avoid" them?
What does Scripture teach us on how to restore an erring brother or sister? Remember, they believe they have the truth as you believe you have the truth-correct?
Me-I'm somewhere in "the middle"
 
Johann said:
The way and manner it is done here comes perilously close to be cantankerous and disrespectful-should we "mark and avoid" them?
What does Scripture teach us on how to restore an erring brother or sister? Remember, they believe they have the truth as you believe you have the truth-correct?
Me-I'm somewhere in "the middle"
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I was snared in it for 40 plus years so I speak from experience and doctrine.
 
civic said:
I was snared in it for 40 plus years so I speak from experience and doctrine.
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All the more reason that you should show them respect and correct with gentleness-much mercy and grace has been extended to you and you can do the same to them.
There is no need for me to admonish you to do the right thing.
 
Johann said:
Correcting others, especially within the Christian community, requires a delicate balance of truth and love. Here's how you might approach correcting Christians who engage in slander against their Calvinist brothers or sisters, along with some relevant Scriptures:

  1. Speak the Truth in Love: Ephesians 4:15 instructs believers to "speak the truth in love." When addressing slanderous behavior, it's essential to communicate truthfully and respectfully, avoiding harshness or condemnation.
  2. Address the Issue Privately: Matthew 18:15 outlines a process for addressing conflict within the church, beginning with a private conversation between the parties involved. If you witness slanderous behavior, consider reaching out to the individual privately to express your concerns and offer correction in a spirit of humility and grace.
  3. Encourage Unity and Edification: Romans 14:19 urges believers to "make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification." Remind fellow Christians of the importance of unity within the body of Christ and encourage them to build up, rather than tear down, their brothers and sisters in the faith.
  4. Model Christ-like Behavior: 1 Peter 2:21 encourages believers to follow in the footsteps of Christ, who "when he was reviled, he did not revile in return." By modeling Christ-like behavior in our own interactions and responses, we can set an example for others and contribute to a culture of grace and reconciliation within the church.
  5. Pray for Reconciliation and Restoration: James 5:16 encourages believers to "pray for each other so that you may be healed." Lift up both the slanderer and the one slandered in prayer, asking God to bring about reconciliation, repentance, and restoration in their relationship.
In addressing slander within the Christian community, it's crucial to approach the situation with humility, wisdom, and a commitment to biblical principles. By speaking the truth in love, addressing the issue privately, encouraging unity and edification, modeling Christ-like behavior, and praying for reconciliation, we can contribute to the health and unity of the body of Christ.

There is simply no need to criticize or slander our Calvinist brothers and sisters who are IN Christ Jesus.
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And vice versa?
 
Presby02 said:
Sorry. Non-sequitar

God's providence, assuming you know what it is, does not use force nor is force necessary.
Click to expand...
Not just providence. God determination determines ones desires as well in Calvinist Compatibilism

CompatibilismCompatibilism (also known as soft determinism), is the belief that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is "compatible" with voluntary choice. In light of Scripture, human choices are believed to be exercised voluntarily but the desires and circumstances that bring about these choices about occur through divine determinism Monergism.com
 
TomL said:
And vice versa?
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I notice you must have just woke up and roaming-not that I have a problem with that @TomL
Context of Galatians
In Galatians, Paul addresses the tension between living under the Law (the Torah) and living by faith in Christ. He emphasizes that Christians are freed from the Law and should live by the Spirit.

Key Verses
Galatians 5:16-18 (NIV): "So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
Exegetical Explanation
Walk by the Spirit (v. 16):

Term "walk" (Greek: "peripateo"): Implies ongoing conduct and daily life.
"By the Spirit": Indicates the guiding influence of the Holy Spirit in one's actions and decisions.
Conflict Between Flesh and Spirit (v. 17):

"Flesh" (Greek: "sarx"): Represents human sinful nature and desires.
"Spirit" (Greek: "Pneuma"): Refers to the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, who empowers and directs believers.
Conflict: Believers experience an internal battle between their old sinful nature and the new life given by the Spirit.
Led by the Spirit (v. 18):

"Led" (Greek: "ago"): Suggests being guided, akin to a shepherd leading sheep.
"Under the law": In contrast, being led by the Spirit frees one from the legalistic observance of the Mosaic Law.
Practical Implications
Active Dependence:

Believers should actively seek and depend on the Holy Spirit’s guidance through prayer, reading Scripture, and being sensitive to the Spirit’s promptings.
Fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23):

The evidence of being led by the Spirit is seen in the manifestation of the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
These qualities are produced by the Spirit, not by human effort alone.
Resistance to Fleshly Desires:

By focusing on the Spirit, believers can resist sinful impulses and live in a way that pleases God.
This involves a daily choice to submit to the Spirit's influence over one's own desires and impulses.
Broader Biblical Context
Romans 8:14 (NIV): "For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." This underscores that being led by the Spirit is a mark of belonging to God's family.
Ephesians 5:18 (NIV): "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." Being filled with the Spirit involves yielding to His control, akin to how alcohol controls a drunk person, but in a positive, holy manner.
Summary
Being led by the Spirit involves a continuous, active relationship with God where the believer yields to the Holy Spirit’s guidance in all areas of life. This results in the transformation of character, evidenced by the fruit of the Spirit, and enables believers to overcome sinful tendencies. It is a dynamic process of living in step with the Spirit, making decisions and acting in ways that reflect God's will and character.

Are we "peripateo" in and by the Spirit? How 'bout the fruit of the Spirit? What about 1 Cor 13?
 
TomL said:
Not just providence. God determination determines ones desires as well in Calvinist Compatibilism

CompatibilismCompatibilism (also known as soft determinism), is the belief that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is "compatible" with voluntary choice. In light of Scripture, human choices are believed to be exercised voluntarily but the desires and circumstances that bring about these choices about occur through divine determinism Monergism.com
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And it is. Scripture itself being the primary example.
 
Johann said:
I notice you must have just woke up and roaming-not that I have a problem with that @TomL
Context of Galatians
In Galatians, Paul addresses the tension between living under the Law (the Torah) and living by faith in Christ. He emphasizes that Christians are freed from the Law and should live by the Spirit.

Key Verses
Galatians 5:16-18 (NIV): "So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
Exegetical Explanation
Walk by the Spirit (v. 16):

Term "walk" (Greek: "peripateo"): Implies ongoing conduct and daily life.
"By the Spirit": Indicates the guiding influence of the Holy Spirit in one's actions and decisions.
Conflict Between Flesh and Spirit (v. 17):

"Flesh" (Greek: "sarx"): Represents human sinful nature and desires.
"Spirit" (Greek: "Pneuma"): Refers to the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, who empowers and directs believers.
Conflict: Believers experience an internal battle between their old sinful nature and the new life given by the Spirit.
Led by the Spirit (v. 18):

"Led" (Greek: "ago"): Suggests being guided, akin to a shepherd leading sheep.
"Under the law": In contrast, being led by the Spirit frees one from the legalistic observance of the Mosaic Law.
Practical Implications
Active Dependence:

Believers should actively seek and depend on the Holy Spirit’s guidance through prayer, reading Scripture, and being sensitive to the Spirit’s promptings.
Fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23):

The evidence of being led by the Spirit is seen in the manifestation of the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
These qualities are produced by the Spirit, not by human effort alone.
Resistance to Fleshly Desires:

By focusing on the Spirit, believers can resist sinful impulses and live in a way that pleases God.
This involves a daily choice to submit to the Spirit's influence over one's own desires and impulses.
Broader Biblical Context
Romans 8:14 (NIV): "For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." This underscores that being led by the Spirit is a mark of belonging to God's family.
Ephesians 5:18 (NIV): "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." Being filled with the Spirit involves yielding to His control, akin to how alcohol controls a drunk person, but in a positive, holy manner.
Summary
Being led by the Spirit involves a continuous, active relationship with God where the believer yields to the Holy Spirit’s guidance in all areas of life. This results in the transformation of character, evidenced by the fruit of the Spirit, and enables believers to overcome sinful tendencies. It is a dynamic process of living in step with the Spirit, making decisions and acting in ways that reflect God's will and character.

Are we "peripateo" in and by the Spirit? How 'bout the fruit of the Spirit? What about 1 Cor 13?
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Not what I asked you

I notice you admonish non Calvinists but appear silent in the face of Calvinist ad hominem
 
TomL said:
Nope you cannot prove from scripture god determines all of man's desires or actions
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Seems you want to impugn the sovereignty of God-right? Why can't God determine all of man's actions? I don't mean this in a Calvinistic sense.

  1. Proverbs 16:9 (NIV):
    • "In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps."
  2. Isaiah 46:10-11 (NIV):
    • "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’"
  3. Psalm 33:10-11 (NIV):
    • "The Lord foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples. But the plans of the Lord stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations."
  4. Job 42:2 (NIV):
    • "I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted."
  5. Proverbs 19:21 (NIV):
    • "Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails."

New Testament:​

  1. Acts 2:23 (NIV):
    • "This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross."
  2. Romans 9:18 (NIV):
    • "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden."
  3. Ephesians 1:11 (NIV):
    • "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will."
  4. Philippians 2:13 (NIV):
    • "for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."
  5. Hebrews 1:3 (NIV):
    • "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word."
These verses highlight God's sovereignty and control over human affairs, including the desires and actions of individuals, nations, and all creation. However, interpretations of these passages vary among different theological traditions.

You want to exegete these Scriptures?


 

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