Sure I can. The very scripture you use and abuse is the product of Compatibilism
God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES
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You do not understand sovereignty
It does not require that all things are determined
If you think otherwise post a verse showing all things are determined
Contrariwise
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.
Jer. 32:35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Is. 30:1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the LORD,
“who carry out a plan, but not mine,
and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit,
that they may add sin to sin;
Gal. 5:7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you.
1Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Rom. 11:23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again
Johann
Well-known member
Dodging the issue-re the sovereignty of YHVH.
The sovereignty of God refers to His supreme authority and control over all things, including the affairs of humanity. It encompasses His absolute power, knowledge, and wisdom to govern the universe according to His will. Here's a deeper look at what the sovereignty of God entails in the context of human affairs:
1. Creator and Sustainer:
God is the Creator of the universe (Genesis 1:1) and sustains all things by His power (Hebrews 1:3). As such, He holds ultimate authority over His creation.
2. Providence:
God's sovereignty involves His providential care and guidance over every aspect of life. This includes both the natural world (Psalm 104:27-30) and the lives of individuals (Matthew 6:25-34).
3. Predestination and Foreknowledge:
God's sovereignty extends to predestination, where He ordains and determines certain events and outcomes according to His divine purpose (Romans 8:28-30). Additionally, God's foreknowledge enables Him to know all things, including the choices and actions of individuals, without violating their free will (Acts 2:23; 1 Peter 1:2).
4. Human Responsibility:
While God is sovereign, humans are also responsible for their choices and actions. The Bible presents a tension between God's sovereignty and human responsibility, emphasizing both aspects without fully explaining how they coexist (Proverbs 16:9; Philippians 2:12-13).
5. Redemption and Salvation:
God's sovereignty is evident in the plan of redemption and salvation. He initiates and accomplishes salvation through Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:3-14), drawing people to Himself by His grace (John 6:44) and granting faith to those who believe (Ephesians 2:8-9).
6. Trust and Surrender:
Understanding God's sovereignty can lead to trust and surrender in His will, knowing that He works all things for the good of those who love Him (Romans 8:28). It encourages reliance on His wisdom and timing, even in times of uncertainty or adversity.
7. Mystery and Reverence:
The sovereignty of God is a profound mystery that surpasses human understanding (Isaiah 55:8-9). It evokes awe and reverence for His majesty and greatness, reminding believers of their dependence on Him.
In summary, the sovereignty of God in the affairs of man encompasses His supreme authority, providential care, predestining purposes, and redemptive plan. While acknowledging God's sovereignty, believers also recognize their responsibility to trust and obey Him, aligning their lives with His will.
Read Owen and Edwards on the sovereignty of God and even a synergist has to acknowledge this.
Nope. Paul wrote the word of God, God determines tge content of His word, freely without force or coercion.
Compatibilism
First that does not speak of all things
second that is inspiration not compatibilism
Using your methodology, taking dictation would be compatibilism
It isn't
Johann
Well-known member
Compatibilism, in a non-Calvinistic sense, is a philosophical and theological position that seeks to reconcile the concepts of God's sovereignty and human free will without necessarily adhering to the specific doctrines of Calvinism. It acknowledges the tension between these two ideas and attempts to find a compatible understanding of how they can coexist. Here's an overview of compatibilism in a non-Calvinistic context:
1. Definition:
- Compatibilism asserts that God's sovereignty and human free will are compatible, meaning that they can coexist without being mutually exclusive. It holds that God's sovereign control does not negate or undermine human responsibility.
2. Sovereignty of God:
- In this view, God's sovereignty is understood as His supreme authority and control over all things, including human affairs. He ordains and governs events according to His divine plan and purposes.
3. Human Free Will:
- Compatibilism affirms that humans possess genuine freedom of choice and action within the context of God's sovereignty. While God ultimately determines all things, humans still make meaningful decisions and are responsible for their actions.
4. Divine Concurrence:
- One key aspect of compatibilism is the concept of divine concurrence, which holds that God's will and human will can coincide or "concur" in a way that does not violate human freedom. This means that God can work through human choices and actions to accomplish His purposes.
5. Mystery and Paradox:
- Compatibilism recognizes that the relationship between God's sovereignty and human free will is a profound mystery that surpasses human understanding. While attempts can be made to logically reconcile these concepts, there may always be elements that remain mysterious or paradoxical.
6. Theological Implications:
- Non-Calvinistic compatibilism often emphasizes the importance of human responsibility and moral agency, affirming that individuals are accountable for their choices and actions. It seeks to maintain a balance between acknowledging God's sovereignty and upholding the dignity and significance of human freedom.
7. Variations and Perspectives:
- Compatibilism can be understood and articulated in various ways within different theological traditions. While it shares some similarities with Calvinistic compatibilism, non-Calvinistic perspectives may place greater emphasis on human autonomy and the cooperative relationship between God and humanity.
Conclusion:
Compatibilism in a non-Calvinistic sense offers a framework for grappling with the complex relationship between God's sovereignty and human free will. It seeks to navigate the tension between these concepts while affirming both the authority of God and the meaningful agency of humans in the world.I am learning and it is good to see the two sides re Compatibilism-would you say God is sovereign?
The issue is does God determine all things not is he sovereign
His sovereignty is not in question
That he meticulously determines all things is.
So did God sovereignly determine your sin
you did not address the verses quoted
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.
Jer. 32:35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Is. 30:1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the LORD,
“who carry out a plan, but not mine,
and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit,
that they may add sin to sin;
Gal. 5:7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you.
1Cor. 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
1Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Rom. 11:23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again
This is compatibilism from a Calvinist source
The only way you can objectively evaluate the Calvinist belief
CompatibilismCompatibilism (also known as soft determinism), is the belief that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is "compatible" with voluntary choice. In light of Scripture, human choices are believed to be exercised voluntarily but the desires and circumstances that bring about these choices about occur through divine determinism
Monergism.com The website of John Piper
So does god determine all of man's evil desires?
Johann
Well-known member
Well-since you quote Scripture verses without context that says something.
I picked this up yesterday-it's called "a one verse theology"
civic
Well-known member
Yep
civic
Well-known member
You just perfectly described Calvinist theology , thanks
No unconditIonal election onto salvation anywhere. In other words, no violation of a person's will in order to force him to believe.. In colloquial more graphic terms, no zapping from above.
Johann
Well-known member
God's Sovereignty:
- Many theological traditions affirm that God is sovereign and holds ultimate authority and control over all things, including human beings and their desires (Psalm 115:3; Isaiah 46:9-10).
2. Human Responsibility:
- While God is sovereign, humans are also responsible for their choices and actions. The Bible affirms human moral agency and accountability (Deuteronomy 30:19; Joshua 24:15).
3. Origin of Evil:
- The origin of evil desires is a complex theological issue. Some perspectives argue that evil desires originate from human sinfulness and rebellion against God (James 1:13-15), while others emphasize the influence of external factors such as societal influences or spiritual forces (Ephesians 6:12).
4. Divine Permission vs. Determination:
- Some theological perspectives suggest that while God permits evil to exist and may use it for His purposes, He does not directly determine or cause every evil desire or action (Genesis 50:20; Romans 8:28).
5. Mystery and Paradox:
- The relationship between God's sovereignty and human evil desires is ultimately a mystery that surpasses human understanding (Isaiah 55:8-9). While attempts can be made to explain this relationship theologically, there may always be elements that remain mysterious or paradoxical.
Conclusion:
The question of whether God determines all of man's evil desires is a complex paradoxical issue with no easy answers. Different theological perspectives offer nuanced explanations for the relationship between God's sovereignty and human responsibility in the context of evil desires. Ultimately, believers must grapple with this tension in humility and trust in God's wisdom and goodness, recognizing the limits of human understanding in comprehending divine mysteries.Don't you think this should bring us to our knees-before the Almighty God?That we don't know it all?
Eph 1:15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
Eph 1:16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
Eph 1:18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might
Eph 1:20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
Eph 1:22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
That was eight verses not one
So it can hardly be called a one verse theology
You did not address them
are those verses consistent with the determinism of all things
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.
Jer. 32:35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Is. 30:1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the LORD,
“who carry out a plan, but not mine,
and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit,
that they may add sin to sin;
Gal. 5:7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you.
1Cor. 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
1Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Rom. 11:23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again
and appear to be avoiding a response
It appears he is trying to avoid the pointYep
Johann
Well-known member
These verses you presented contains a nuanced perspective on the relationship between God's sovereignty and human responsibility, particularly in the context of temptation, sin, and human choices. While they do not explicitly address the concept of determinism in all things, they offer insights into the sources of temptation, the nature of human desires, and God's role in guiding and providing for His people. Let's examine how these verses relate to the concept of determinism:
1. James 1:13-14
These verses emphasize that God does not tempt anyone with evil. Instead, individuals are tempted by their own desires. This suggests that while God is not the author of evil, He allows humans to experience temptation and provides them with the ability to resist it.
2. 1 John 2:16
This verse highlights that the desires of the flesh, eyes, and pride of life are not from God but from the world. It suggests that human desires are influenced by external factors and that not all desires originate from God.
3. Jeremiah 32:35
God expresses dismay over the actions of the people of Judah, indicating that their sinful behavior was not commanded or desired by Him. This verse underscores human responsibility for their actions and choices, even when they go against God's will.
4. Isaiah 30:1
This verse rebukes the Israelites for carrying out plans and alliances that were not aligned with God's Spirit. It emphasizes the consequences of human rebellion and disobedience, which add sin upon sin.
5. Galatians 5:7-8
Paul questions who hindered the Galatians from obeying the truth, suggesting that the persuasion they received was not from God. This implies that while God calls His people to obedience, external influences can lead them astray.
6. 1 Corinthians 14:33
This verse affirms that God is a God of order and peace, suggesting that confusion and chaos are not consistent with His character. It underscores the importance of aligning with God's peace rather than confusion.
7. 1 Corinthians 10:13
Paul assures the Corinthians that God will not allow them to be tempted beyond what they can bear and will provide a way of escape. This suggests that while God allows temptation, He also provides the means for His people to resist and overcome it.
8. Romans 11:23
This verse speaks of God's power to graft people back into His purposes if they turn from unbelief. It suggests that while God's sovereignty is evident, human response plays a role in whether individuals remain in unbelief or are grafted back into faith.
So while while these verses do not explicitly address determinism in all things, they underscore the complex interplay between God's sovereignty and human responsibility in the context of temptation, sin, and obedience. They highlight that while God is ultimately sovereign, humans have agency and are responsible for their choices and actions, which can either align with or rebel against God's will.
