Favoritism in Unconditional Election

civic said:
You just denied John 3:16-18 the gospel as taught by Jesus.

Yikes
Click to expand...
Let us see who is denying John 3:16-18. Does God love everyone?

Introduction:​

Many think it quite sacrilegious for us to even approach this question, for it is assumed with such arrogance. We are attacking the very bedrock, and for many the entire structure, of man’s presumed knowledge of God! This is all most people know, and think they need to know, about God. All else is subordinate to this theme. They think it horrible to limit God’s love to men, for they presume man is lovable and God must love him. They cannot stand the God of the Bible, for they have imagined a God that is much more to their sinful liking. What men may teach about God does not have any necessary connection to truth without valid confirmation.

There is only one absolute, complete, final, and true source of information about Jehovah – the Holy Bible. What men may wish about God does not have any necessary connection to truth without valid confirmation. Men wish God was a sugar daddy, Who would forgive all men just to be nice and take them all to heaven.
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, especially in matters about God (Jer 17:9). Natural creation only shows God’s glory, handiwork, eternal power, and Godhead (Ps 19:1-6; Rom 1:19-21). We need much more than that to discover His redeeming love, the objects of His love, and the fruits of it.

From creation, we can see choices were made for men that are horrifically distinguishing and discriminating – some die in the womb, die in youth, are born blind, are born retarded, are born in horrible squalor, etc., etc.

From the Bible, why do men ignore Eden’s consequences, the Flood, the Canaanites, Korah, Sapphira, etc.?

We live in a feminized generation that has watered everything down to lukewarm vomit, except, of course, the right and obligation to hate anyone who dogmatically stands for a sovereign God and an infallible Bible.

Addressing this subject must be like Noah telling his generation enough rain was coming to cover mountains. Addressing this subject must be like Columbus saying the earth was round to a world believing it was flat. Addressing this subject must be like Peter telling the Jews Jesus was the Messiah and they had killed Him.

The assumptions, presumptions, and default mechanisms on this subject are unbelievably, deeply rooted.

The sound of words, especially John 3:16, must be rooted out and replaced with the sense of the words. Hearing John 3:16 with a sense to fit Scripture and truth is no worse than I Cor 11:24 and Gal 5:4 to others.

No one truly argues for the character of God when it comes to His love, or they would seek love for the devil.

What are some of the consequences of this heresy? No fear of God in the earth, ignorance of God’s holiness and righteousness, feminized church leadership, superficial professions of religion, lack of zeal for holy living, neglect of discipline in the church and home, a weak and begging ministry, the-end-justifies-the-means evangelism, a degraded view of salvation, contemporary worship to cater to the carnal, universalism and no-hell heresies, candy cane use of Bible verses, PETA, and lovers of pleasure assuming eternal life.

How can we benefit by answering the question? Worship God in truth (John 4:23-24), serve Him with reverence and godly fear (Heb 12:28-29), understand the Bible without confusion (II Tim 2:15), bask in our glorious salvation (II Cor 9:15), see through the fallacy of an offer of salvation (John 6:38-39), see the commendation God gave His love (Rom 5:5-8), be motivated to extreme service (II Cor 5:14-17), know we can never be separated from it (Rom 8:38-39), and be filled with all the fullness of God (Eph 3:14-19).

God hates all sinners.​

  1. This is plainly taught in Psalm 5:4-6 and 11:4-6, though these verses are generally ignored.
  2. Here are two verses that specifically address the subject at hand – there are people God hates.
  3. In spite of these verses, people want to keep right on believing, “God couldn’t hate anybody.”
  4. God hates sinners – the wicked in these verses – because He hates sin, and sinners love sin.
  5. It is the imagination of weak minds that gently coos, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.”
  6. This statement is a profane lie! Should Noah have had a banner across the side of the ark comforting the drowning rebels with the words, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner”?
  7. This statement is a profane lie! Should Joshua have had ensigns before the armies of Israel as they exterminated the Canaanites with the words, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner”?
  8. There is nothing in man justifying God’s love; there is nothing in God requiring He love man.
  9. Throughout the word of God, there are two great classes of men – the wicked and the righteous, the reprobates and the elect, the sinners and saints, the children and the bastards, the church and the rest, the saved and the lost, vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy, etc., etc.
  10. It is a result of confused thinking to say, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.” Sin is not a separate thing that can be hated and punished by itself. Sin is the rebellious choice of a rational creature to despise His Creator and violate His commandments. God hates the actor and activity of this rebel creature. He will send persons to hell, not sins. The saying is a profane lie!
  11. God hates both the sin and the sinner (Lev 20:23; Deut 18:12; 25:16; Ps 2:4-9; 7:11; 10:3; Pr 3:31-34; 6:16-19; 16:5; 17:5; Malachi 1:3-4; I Corinthians 16:22; Revelation 14:10-11).
  12. The apparent dilemma with God loving His elect will be explained in detail in following points; but let it be remembered that God’s elect are not sinners or workers of iniquity, for God has viewed them as holy and without blame since before the world began, when He chose them in Christ Jesus their Surety (Eph 1:3-6)!

God hates sin and sinners because He is holy.​

  1. God is holy, and His absolutely holy nature requires that He hate sin wherever He finds it.
  2. The definition of true holiness and righteousness includes hatred for sin (Ps 45:7; Heb 1:9).
  3. The great God is of purer eyes than to behold evil or look on iniquity approvingly (Hab 1:13).
  4. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is holy … undefiled … and separate from sinners (Heb 7:26).
  5. God is so pure in His holiness that angelic sin was not accepted in His sight (Job 15:14-16).
  6. Any man who truly fears and loves God will hate sin with Him (Pr 8:13; Ps 45:7; Heb 1:9).
  7. God’s holiness requires that He hate sin (Psalm 5:4-6; 53:5; 73:20; Pr 6:16-19; Zech 8:17).
  8. God is very holy, and this character trait of God cannot be neglected (Is 6:1-7; Rev 4:8).
  9. The holiness of God is a grossly neglected and rejected attribute of the Lord Jehovah.
  10. There is no place in heaven for anything that defiles, for God and heaven are holy (Rev 21:27).
  11. Consider how the holiness and justice of God poured out wrath on Jesus for the elect’s sins.
  12. If He forsook His Son and took pleasure in bruising Him … because of our sins … how much more shall He forsake, bruise, and hate those without faith, who continue in rabid rebellion?

God loves His elect because legally they are not sinners.​

  1. He chose His elect as holy in Christ before the world began, so He could love them (Ep 1:3-4).
    1. He chose the elect in Christ in order to view them as holy and without blame! Glory!
    2. He chose to view the elect as holy and without blame, so He could love them! Glory!
    3. Consider the glorious declarations in this wonderful passage of Scripture about God’s love.
    4. The whole passage is wrapped up in the will and purpose of God, not our inherent worth.
    5. God chose those He would love, and He made His love for them possible (Rom 9:15).
  2. He both predestinated the elect to be His sons and made them acceptable in Christ (Eph 1:5-6).
    1. He had to predestinate us to the adoption by Jesus Christ in order to accept us sinners.
    2. The issue is not whether we accept God or not, but whether He can and will accept us!
    3. And all this choosing and predestinating to make us holy and acceptable is by His will!
    4. And it is all to the praise of the glory of His grace, for it is all of God choosing to love us!
    5. If God loves all men indiscriminately and without exception, then it is a necessary conclusion that salvation is to the praise of the glory of their free wills! God forbid!
  3. The eternal covenant of grace viewed the elect in Christ with their sins fully paid and forgiven.
    1. The new covenant includes God forgetting their sins and iniquities (Heb 8:12; 10:17)!
    2. The legal phase of salvation must be understood well to fully appreciate this transaction.
    3. God was in Christ reconciling the elect to Himself (Rom 3:25; II Cor 5:18-21; I Pet 3:18).

Half way through...later​

 
Red Baker said:
Let us see who is denying John 3:16-18. Does God love everyone?

Introduction:​

Many think it quite sacrilegious for us to even approach this question, for it is assumed with such arrogance. We are attacking the very bedrock, and for many the entire structure, of man’s presumed knowledge of God! This is all most people know, and think they need to know, about God. All else is subordinate to this theme. They think it horrible to limit God’s love to men, for they presume man is lovable and God must love him. They cannot stand the God of the Bible, for they have imagined a God that is much more to their sinful liking. What men may teach about God does not have any necessary connection to truth without valid confirmation.

There is only one absolute, complete, final, and true source of information about Jehovah – the Holy Bible. What men may wish about God does not have any necessary connection to truth without valid confirmation. Men wish God was a sugar daddy, Who would forgive all men just to be nice and take them all to heaven.
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, especially in matters about God (Jer 17:9). Natural creation only shows God’s glory, handiwork, eternal power, and Godhead (Ps 19:1-6; Rom 1:19-21). We need much more than that to discover His redeeming love, the objects of His love, and the fruits of it.

From creation, we can see choices were made for men that are horrifically distinguishing and discriminating – some die in the womb, die in youth, are born blind, are born retarded, are born in horrible squalor, etc., etc.

From the Bible, why do men ignore Eden’s consequences, the Flood, the Canaanites, Korah, Sapphira, etc.?

We live in a feminized generation that has watered everything down to lukewarm vomit, except, of course, the right and obligation to hate anyone who dogmatically stands for a sovereign God and an infallible Bible.

Addressing this subject must be like Noah telling his generation enough rain was coming to cover mountains. Addressing this subject must be like Columbus saying the earth was round to a world believing it was flat. Addressing this subject must be like Peter telling the Jews Jesus was the Messiah and they had killed Him.

The assumptions, presumptions, and default mechanisms on this subject are unbelievably, deeply rooted.

The sound of words, especially John 3:16, must be rooted out and replaced with the sense of the words. Hearing John 3:16 with a sense to fit Scripture and truth is no worse than I Cor 11:24 and Gal 5:4 to others.

No one truly argues for the character of God when it comes to His love, or they would seek love for the devil.

What are some of the consequences of this heresy? No fear of God in the earth, ignorance of God’s holiness and righteousness, feminized church leadership, superficial professions of religion, lack of zeal for holy living, neglect of discipline in the church and home, a weak and begging ministry, the-end-justifies-the-means evangelism, a degraded view of salvation, contemporary worship to cater to the carnal, universalism and no-hell heresies, candy cane use of Bible verses, PETA, and lovers of pleasure assuming eternal life.

How can we benefit by answering the question? Worship God in truth (John 4:23-24), serve Him with reverence and godly fear (Heb 12:28-29), understand the Bible without confusion (II Tim 2:15), bask in our glorious salvation (II Cor 9:15), see through the fallacy of an offer of salvation (John 6:38-39), see the commendation God gave His love (Rom 5:5-8), be motivated to extreme service (II Cor 5:14-17), know we can never be separated from it (Rom 8:38-39), and be filled with all the fullness of God (Eph 3:14-19).

God hates all sinners.​

  1. This is plainly taught in Psalm 5:4-6 and 11:4-6, though these verses are generally ignored.
  2. Here are two verses that specifically address the subject at hand – there are people God hates.
  3. In spite of these verses, people want to keep right on believing, “God couldn’t hate anybody.”
  4. God hates sinners – the wicked in these verses – because He hates sin, and sinners love sin.
  5. It is the imagination of weak minds that gently coos, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.”
  6. This statement is a profane lie! Should Noah have had a banner across the side of the ark comforting the drowning rebels with the words, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner”?
  7. This statement is a profane lie! Should Joshua have had ensigns before the armies of Israel as they exterminated the Canaanites with the words, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner”?
  8. There is nothing in man justifying God’s love; there is nothing in God requiring He love man.
  9. Throughout the word of God, there are two great classes of men – the wicked and the righteous, the reprobates and the elect, the sinners and saints, the children and the bastards, the church and the rest, the saved and the lost, vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy, etc., etc.
  10. It is a result of confused thinking to say, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.” Sin is not a separate thing that can be hated and punished by itself. Sin is the rebellious choice of a rational creature to despise His Creator and violate His commandments. God hates the actor and activity of this rebel creature. He will send persons to hell, not sins. The saying is a profane lie!
  11. God hates both the sin and the sinner (Lev 20:23; Deut 18:12; 25:16; Ps 2:4-9; 7:11; 10:3; Pr 3:31-34; 6:16-19; 16:5; 17:5; Malachi 1:3-4; I Corinthians 16:22; Revelation 14:10-11).
  12. The apparent dilemma with God loving His elect will be explained in detail in following points; but let it be remembered that God’s elect are not sinners or workers of iniquity, for God has viewed them as holy and without blame since before the world began, when He chose them in Christ Jesus their Surety (Eph 1:3-6)!

God hates sin and sinners because He is holy.​

  1. God is holy, and His absolutely holy nature requires that He hate sin wherever He finds it.
  2. The definition of true holiness and righteousness includes hatred for sin (Ps 45:7; Heb 1:9).
  3. The great God is of purer eyes than to behold evil or look on iniquity approvingly (Hab 1:13).
  4. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is holy … undefiled … and separate from sinners (Heb 7:26).
  5. God is so pure in His holiness that angelic sin was not accepted in His sight (Job 15:14-16).
  6. Any man who truly fears and loves God will hate sin with Him (Pr 8:13; Ps 45:7; Heb 1:9).
  7. God’s holiness requires that He hate sin (Psalm 5:4-6; 53:5; 73:20; Pr 6:16-19; Zech 8:17).
  8. God is very holy, and this character trait of God cannot be neglected (Is 6:1-7; Rev 4:8).
  9. The holiness of God is a grossly neglected and rejected attribute of the Lord Jehovah.
  10. There is no place in heaven for anything that defiles, for God and heaven are holy (Rev 21:27).
  11. Consider how the holiness and justice of God poured out wrath on Jesus for the elect’s sins.
  12. If He forsook His Son and took pleasure in bruising Him … because of our sins … how much more shall He forsake, bruise, and hate those without faith, who continue in rabid rebellion?

God loves His elect because legally they are not sinners.​

  1. He chose His elect as holy in Christ before the world began, so He could love them (Ep 1:3-4).
    1. He chose the elect in Christ in order to view them as holy and without blame! Glory!
    2. He chose to view the elect as holy and without blame, so He could love them! Glory!
    3. Consider the glorious declarations in this wonderful passage of Scripture about God’s love.
    4. The whole passage is wrapped up in the will and purpose of God, not our inherent worth.
    5. God chose those He would love, and He made His love for them possible (Rom 9:15).
  2. He both predestinated the elect to be His sons and made them acceptable in Christ (Eph 1:5-6).
    1. He had to predestinate us to the adoption by Jesus Christ in order to accept us sinners.
    2. The issue is not whether we accept God or not, but whether He can and will accept us!
    3. And all this choosing and predestinating to make us holy and acceptable is by His will!
    4. And it is all to the praise of the glory of His grace, for it is all of God choosing to love us!
    5. If God loves all men indiscriminately and without exception, then it is a necessary conclusion that salvation is to the praise of the glory of their free wills! God forbid!
  3. The eternal covenant of grace viewed the elect in Christ with their sins fully paid and forgiven.
    1. The new covenant includes God forgetting their sins and iniquities (Heb 8:12; 10:17)!
    2. The legal phase of salvation must be understood well to fully appreciate this transaction.
    3. God was in Christ reconciling the elect to Himself (Rom 3:25; II Cor 5:18-21; I Pet 3:18).

Half way through...later​

Click to expand...
letgodbetrue.com

Does God Love Everybody?

Does God Love Everybody? Introduction: Many think it quite sacrilegious for us to even approach this question, for it is assumed with such arrogance. We are attacking the very bedrock, and for many the entire structure, of man’s presumed knowledge of God! This is
letgodbetrue.com letgodbetrue.com
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
If it is a required thing you do (to do = work),
Click to expand...
Faith without good works is dead.
So faith and good works must go together.
They're not equal to each other but they must go with each other.
The Rogue Tomato said:
then salvation is the payment for your work. This nullifies grace.
Click to expand...
False conclusion.
I cannot save myself by myself.
Therefore, salvation is always a gift.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Yes, it is prejudged, or judged permanently in the past, because by default we are all deserving of judgement. It is only those God births from above according to His mercy who are exempted from judgement.
Click to expand...

No. You don't believe the Scriptures. Jesus didn't judge anyone. He came to save.

Why are you ignoring what Jesus said? Do you think this makes Jesus happy?
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Again, you are making it about the person to whom you are responding. We're discussing scripture, not each other.
Click to expand...

Why are you upset that he mentioned your faith. Mention mine. Doesn't bother me at all.

When you talk about yourself, it become real. Otherwise, you're soothing your own consequence with all these "hypotheticals" that have no personal meaning to you.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
You are applying something required after you are saved to something before you are saved. If you claim to have faith (saved) but have no works, then your faith is dead.

That has nothing to do with saying faith is something you must do in order to be saved. That makes it a work, which nullifies grace.
Click to expand...
Yep James is discussing saving faith

Next
 
praise_yeshua said:
No. You don't believe the Scriptures. Jesus didn't judge anyone. He came to save.

Why are you ignoring what Jesus said? Do you think this makes Jesus happy?
Click to expand...
Jesus didn't come to judge at that time. But the ones not believing are judged already, permanently and in the past.

18 he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
If it is a required thing you do (to do = work), then salvation is the payment for your work. This nullifies grace.
Click to expand...
Wrong read below

James 2
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Jesus didn't come to judge at that time. But the ones not believing are judged already, permanently and in the past.
Click to expand...

No. Jesus said that the words that He spoke would judge them in the future.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Why deny the obvious.
 
praise_yeshua said:
No. Jesus said that the words that He spoke would judge them in the future.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Why deny the obvious.
Click to expand...
he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Click to expand...

Prejudged. There is no absolute until the last day. Things change. You've changed.

Have you ever had a discussion on the order of salvation? I think you need to put this together before you insist upon "hanging on with dear life" to this failing argument you're making.
 

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