Excellent Discussion on OSAS

But according to you, the one who does not keep His commandments and is a liar and the truth is not in him is a genuine Christian anyway who knows the Lord? :oops:

Twisting my words and rearranging the words of scripture to fit your own doctrinal mindset is a sure sign of deception working in your mind.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Those who say “I know Him” but do not keep His commandments are liars.
 
You don't keep yourself saved by keeping His commandments.

Here’s the truth from the words of scripture.

It’s evident that you are desperately trying to somehow change the meaning and rearrange what these words so plainly say because the truth of the scriptures exposes the lie you have been programmed to believe.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Whoever says “I know Him” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar.
 
then we are under law not under grace.

Keeping His commandments is how we remain in Christ.


Here is the words of scripture, word for word that you have rejected.


  • he who keeps His commandments abides in Him



Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
 
you did not answer my question

do we obey because we are saved (we love because he first loved us)
to get saved
or to stay saved.

which one or ones are correct?

We obey because we love Him.

We obey because we are led by the Spirit.

If we disobey Him and don’t repent we will become lost.

Just like His sheep who wandered away and became lost.


  • Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

  • But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17
 
Twisting my words and rearranging the words of scripture to fit your own doctrinal mindset is a sure sign of deception working in your mind.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4

Those who say “I know Him” but do not keep His commandments are liars.
My response ended with a question mark and was in response to your comment about no such word or term in scripture as “nominal Christian”. So, if there are no "nominal" Christians in scripture then the only other conclusion in 1 John 2:4 would be they were genuine Christians (which obviously they were not). That was my point. There is no need for you to get bent out of shape and falsely accuse me of deception. What does that say about your mindset?

Obedience to God after we have been saved through faith does not bring about justification (which comes by faith in Jesus Christ alone - Romans 5:1) but obedience as a pattern of life/practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 1 John 3:7-10) does give evidence that one has been born of God. To know Him involves a personal relationship with Him that transforms our behavior. Simple.
 
Says you, not God.
Then God does not trust himself.

and you must live in fear.

either way. John said they were never of us. if they were they never would have departed (become an unbeliever) but they departed to prove they were never of us.

An antichrist denys christ in unbelief.

if they were never of us. they were never saved.

they left. because the never experienced Gods true love in salvation. and lost the faith they claimed they had. because nothing happened.
 
Twisting my words and rearranging the words of scripture to fit your own doctrinal mindset is a sure sign of deception working in your mind.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Those who say “I know Him” but do not keep His commandments are liars.
one was saved

one was not

none of them lost salvation
 
Here’s the truth from the words of scripture.

It’s evident that you are desperately trying to somehow change the meaning and rearrange what these words so plainly say because the truth of the scriptures exposes the lie you have been programmed to believe.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Whoever says “I know Him” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar.
Yes

If I know him (I am saved) I keep his commands (because he made me into a new creature)

if I do not know him (I have not been saved) Then I do not keep his commands. because I am left in my flesh and I serve self.
 
Keeping His commandments is how we remain in Christ.
Under law, not under grace
Here is the words of scripture, word for word that you have rejected.


  • he who keeps His commandments abides in Him



Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
Yes.

And what do we do when we abide in him? Produce fruit.

Again, your putting yourself under law. trying to get saved by works..

You will not make it.. You will fail
 
We obey because we love Him.

We obey because we are led by the Spirit.

If we disobey Him and don’t repent we will become lost.
so you just admited you obey to stay saved.

Thank you

You are in error
Just like His sheep who wandered away and became lost.


  • Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

  • But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17
Yes. It does not mean they lost salvation. they lost the right to have fellowship.

Your under law my friend. i will pray for you.. Because you can not have any hope under law.
 
that's conditional life
You're gravely mistaken to think that God possesses conditional life. God is eternal with eternal life. Eternal life is given to us on condition that we abide in Christ. To say otherwise is to reject the Vine Parable.
Again, Good luck.. you want to try to earn your salvation by doing. feel free.
I laid it at the cross. and it is Gods..
He gave me rest
He gave me not a spirit of fear but of a sound mind
You may claim you have a sound mind. but that is pretty much impossible..
Since you reject the Vine Parable, of course it is impossible for you to understand. Your presuppositions keep blinding you to the truth.
 
You're gravely mistaken to think that God possesses conditional life.
I do not think God posseses it

You think you have it.

God is eternal with eternal life. Eternal life is given to us on condition that we abide in Christ. To say otherwise is to reject the Vine Parable.
No. God gave us eternal life based on the cross and us recieving his gift in faith/.

You can not earn eternal life. if you could. by how righteous you are. Christ died in vein, you could save yourself
Since you reject the Vine Parable, of course it is impossible for you to understand. Your presuppositions keep blinding you to the truth.
blah blah blah

I don;t reject it. I reject your interpretation. Just like I reject your interpretation of James 2.

its not about you my friend. show some humility for a change.
 
There is nothing we can do? We can't trust Christ, believe in Christ, and repent of my sins? Nothing? You sure?
The demons believe, but they most certainly aren't saved. James ridiculed people on this point. Why do I put it that way? He is saying that even the demons give God more credence then some in his audience. They tremble. They have the proper response of fear. So many here have no fear of God before their eyes. They will say all kinds of things that attack the nature of God, or what He has done, without thought... without fear.
Who else is going to repent for your sins? God does not repent for you, you do. Monergism is dead wrong.
Salvation is not repentance. Sure, that is part of it, but Esau sought out repentance diligently with tears, and God refused. And God stated it directly.
Are you a proponent of the "do nothing, be inert, and wait for the zapping" doctrine of calvinism?
It's too easy to lean on this idea, but that isn't how it works. Even Calvin preached to influence his congregation. Why not? No one knows who God has chosen, and even those who may appear to belong to God... we don't know their heart, or how they live at home. John didn't say that the people would automatically recognize those who don't belong to God in 1 John, but said that they show it by leaving the church. That makes it clear.

As one person put it, sometimes it is when we are beating at the gate of the narrow way, and we have given all we have, that as we crumble to the ground the gate opens and we are dragged in. Salvation is monergistic. Sanctification is, I believe, synergistic, but sanctification doesn't save. Since we sinned against God, and it is against Him that our offense stands, only God can do something/anything about it. That's as monergistic as it can get. We cannot remove the offense. We can entreat God, but that has no effect on our offense. Again, only God can remove it, and He is a holy God, so He won't remove it. Not without equal exchange. And that was something we could never, and have never provided. God provided it in His Son. However, it is not universal. It is still on God. Ephesians 1 gives an idea of what it is all about.
 
Wrong, the greek supports it, and the english, and the overall tenor of truth supports it, the Faith in Salvation conversion is not of oneself, its a Gift of God.
Saying a lie over and over doesn't make it the truth. The faith in salvation is a reaction to what God has done. Hence why it is through faith, and not by faith. By faith would make it an action, a work, which it is not. Grace is the salvation, hence the verse begins "For by grace you have been saved, through faith...
Man has hijacked that scripture and gives man credit for faith in Salvation instead of acknowledging its of Gods Gift.
It is indirectly the gift of God, being a reaction to the radical transformation of our mind, and the regeneration of our spirit by God. It is a radical change to how we understand God, life, and our place in the world. It is that which drives man to their knees.
Its actually making man out to be God, thats how serious this issue is.
You are making man a robot, which is just as serious. Without God's action, there is no salvation. There may be "faith", but it won't last. It is quite possible to intellectually assent to everything in the Bible, but that does nothing for the heart. That is not salvaiton. That can, in fact, be worse, because they know the truth, yet still live outside of it.
 
@Doug Brents
Heb 6:4-6
James 5:19-20
John 15:1-2
And I could list many more.
Greetings Doug,

You have not listed the first as of yet, and pretty sure you do not have any. But you are more than welcome to attempt to try. I want to gone back and pick up some of your scriptures that you have used to teach baptism regeneration and address them with you. I am reading through some of these posit now to get caught up somewhat.
 
@armylngst
It's not saying partial or full, and if you say you are calvinist, you might as well say you are of Paul or Apollos. I don't like named theologies because they are constricting. I see myself as calvinistic, where my beliefs are not contradictory to, but in line with calvinist beliefs. (As in TULIP.)
Greetings armylmgst,

I myself try to avoid naming folks Calvinist, or Armenian, since there's good people on both sides and reprobates on both sides, so there, the main reason I avoid placing labels on God's children ~ I may on rare occasions used them, but very seldom.

That being said, I'm a true hyper Calvinist, or high, whichever a person desires to use; again, makes little difference to me. I do not follow the tulip since I am not true Calvinist, beside True Calvinism takes in a very wide scope of people, many of which are of the reformed community of believers, which teaches infant baptism, which we reject as heresy, and covenant theology, etc. You said:
Salvation is all of God. I am saying that faith is not directly the gift of God, that is salvation, but faith is not a work of us, its a reaction. That reaction comes as a result and directly connect to in that case, to what God has done. We do not create faith in ourselves.
The truth is this: Salvation is indeed all of God, since man by the fall is at enmity against God, having "lost" God's image of righteousness, knowledge, understanding, and the power to do spiritual acts pleasing unto the God who created us. Man, became in bondage to sin and his new master, the devil himself! God's almighty power alone can deliver a sinner from his spiritual death and condemnation he is living in.....yes, it takes the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead, to raise a sinner form being dead in trespasses and sin, to life in Jesus Christ. Read Ephesians 1:19-2:1.

John 8:44​

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

Note carefully: The devil was a murderer from the beginning of time on this earth ~ he was actually a murderer of Adam and Eve, and of all their posterity, by tempting them to sin, which brought death and ruin upon them; and who quickly after that instigated Cain to slay his brother; and has had, more or less, a concern in all murders committed since; and has been in all ages, and still is, a murderer of the souls of men; and therefore is rightly called Abaddon, and Apollyon, which signify the destroyer:
Salvation is all of God. I am saying that faith is not directly the gift of God, that is salvation, but faith is not a work of us, its a reaction. That reaction comes as a result and directly connect to in that case, to what God has done. We do not create faith in ourselves.
The truth is this: brother, faith is given to God's children (Philippians 1:29) in this sense: Jesus Christ, God's Righteous Servant secured eternal life for each and every child of God, and in due time that life is imparted to them by the Spirit of the Living God; and from "that point forward" they have the power, authority to have faith through the NEW MAN that is created in us by the power of Almighty God. Example would be helpful to prove my point.

So much truth within these ten verses of scriptures! Jesus without question went by many houses before he ever came to Zacchaeus' house, but, the time had come that he MUST go there and the reason given is this: forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham, not a natural son, but a Son of God's promises secured by His holy oath!

Salvation and all spiritual blessings included in the salvation of God are freely given to us through Jesus' life acting as our surety before God's law! Praise be unto God and to Lamb of God, both now and forever more.
 
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@Jim
It always amazes me that the Calvinist doesn't even know what it means to have faith, to believe, in God and how one comes to that faith. They believe that God sticks faith into their brains in one way or another. Amazing.
No Jim, that's not how it works, and of course you know that.

The truth is this: God by His mighty power quickens an elect sinner to life, and in this quickening, he creates a new man within us, and it is the NEW MAN that has spiritual power to believe, to obey and to live according to the scriptures. This new man is created after the image of Jesus Christ, the second Adam. Why do you reject this blessed truth, for depending on your flesh to please God, when you should know that it is impossible for those in flesh to please Him, one MUST be in the Spirit to please God and have the powers to do spiritual acts acceptable unto Him. What does Romans 7:18-8:13 mean to you? Obviously, not that much.
 
@Jim
It doesn't say that faith is the fruit of the Spirit; it says faithfulness is the fruit of the Spirit. Faith and faithfulness are two different things. There is the faithfulness of God, there is no such thing as the faith of God.

Galatians 5:22,23​

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”

Jim, you better than to say what you did here. Jim, theses are the spiritual of the Spirit that is produce by Him dwelling IN US. Our natural flesh cannot produce any of these fruits to the degree that they are acceptable in His sight! All those still in flesh produce the likeness of these fruits, but at best a sinful, wicked likeness, much like an timely fig tree produces fruits that are not good to eat.
 
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