synergy
Active Member
Where do you see regeneration in those verses? I don't. Those verses clearly say that belief is b4 salvation/regeneration.
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- Thread starter civic
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It doesn't say that faith is the fruit of the Spirit; it says faithfulness is the fruit of the Spirit. Faith and faithfulness are two different things. There is the faithfulness of God, there is no such thing as the faith of God.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
There is no way that could possibly be an attribute of God, or Christ for that matter.
Don't you know? God told him that in secret from the rest of us.
civic
Active Member
You need a black light to see it where it shows up rofl
synergy
Active Member
I guess @brightfame52 doesn't. That's why he has 2000 years of history to catch up on.Hey we have the same family of ancestors
GodsGrace
Active Member
Right.
Galatians is badly translated.
A better word would be TRUST....
but FAITHFULNESS works well.
Faith makes no sense, but in the romance languages it could mean
faith, as a noun
or faith, as a verb.
In Galatians it would be faith, as a verb.
To HAVE FAITH in someone,,,to trust.
THIS is the gift of the Holy Spirit.
To receive the gifts of the Holy §Spirit, we must ALREADY have faith (as a noun).
brightfame52
Active Member
Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, or you can say a fruit of regeneration, its a basic principle. Whenever in spiritual salvific matters, when Faith and or believing is mentioned, regeneration, or being made alive preceded it. Otherwise man iis dead spiritually to God and all spiritual matters. Same is true with the elect or sheep, whenever you see the world, all, everyone in the context of salvation, by default without saying the word elect or sheep, thats who its meaning.
brightfame52
Active Member
It does say Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Its the greek word πίστις:
- conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
- relating to God
- the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
- relating to Christ
- a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
- the religious beliefs of Christians
- belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
- relating to God
- fidelity, faithfulness
its translated Faith (239x
GodsGrace
Active Member
Calvinists don't have one letter of the acronym TULIP correct.
The bible teaches NOTHING as to the Calvinist soteriological belief system.
Again....to say that a person is regenerated (made new) before salvation is like saying that one has to be
born again in order to be born again.
But, hey, Calvinism makes no logical sense....
so you're right in line with all those that don't understand that God CREATED common sense.
And the gift of the Holy Spirit in Galatians 5 is FAITHFULNESS
NOT
Faith.
The PERSON provides the faith....
not the Holy §Spirit.
Jesus said:
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
Luke 17:19
And he said to him, “Rise and go your way; your faith has made you well.”
The Holy Spirit is our helper, comforter and paraclete.
He helps us with our faith if we wish Him to....
He does NOT force faith onto anyone that does not want it.
Grace IS resitible.
The gift of faith is found in the list of the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12.
All believers have been given saving faith by God as the only means of salvation.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God
Ephesians 2:8
All believers have been given saving faith by God as the only means of salvation.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God
Ephesians 2:8
brightfame52
Active Member
@Phoebe
Also in Rom 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
This is addressed to believers, whom Paul had heard of their Faith as noted in Rom 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Notice Paul thanked God for hearing about their Faith, because God gave it to them.
Also in Rom 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
This is addressed to believers, whom Paul had heard of their Faith as noted in Rom 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Notice Paul thanked God for hearing about their Faith, because God gave it to them.
GodsGrace
Active Member
God dealt to every man a measure of faith
means:
That God gave to each person the measure of faith specifically to be able to do a certain task.....
We each have a task for which we need God's help....
It would be good for us to know what our specific task is...
sometimes we can know,,,,
but sometimes we may not.
What is YOUR task BF?
To tell persons that they cannot be saved, and have no hope,
unless God specifically chose them?
Doesn't sound like good news to me.
In fact, in calvinism there is no good news.
Just fatalism.
brightfame52
Active Member
Gods New Covenant Faithfulness forbids any punishment for sins unto believers, for He hath promised this Heb 8
Jer 31:33-34
33 ;But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
This New Covenant Promise is Mediated and confirmed by the shed blood of Christ Heb 8:6,12
6 ;But now hath he[Jesus] obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
So God will not ever punish them for their sins,
Now the unsaved world outside of the New Covenant, He remembers their sins against them Rev 18:4-5
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Jer 31:33-34
33 ;But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
This New Covenant Promise is Mediated and confirmed by the shed blood of Christ Heb 8:6,12
6 ;But now hath he[Jesus] obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
So God will not ever punish them for their sins,
Now the unsaved world outside of the New Covenant, He remembers their sins against them Rev 18:4-5
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
That is the supernatural gift of faith, given only to a select few of the saints in the beginning decades of the church. Being a cessationist, I do not believe such supernatural gifts have been given since the Holy Spirit completed the written NT scriptures.
If it is a gift, why hasn't that gift been given to all? What kind of a loving God would withhold that gift from all but a few? The truth is that He wouldn't. Faith is not a gift. Faith in God is achieved in the same way as faith in anyone or anything else.
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brightfame52
Active Member
Eternal life is the gift of God, something given/done by Him, and so its secure because of this promise Ecc 3:14
14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
And its only a Gift given to some of mankind, known as Gods Sheep John 10:26-30
26 ;But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
Jesus in the Covenant engagement is authorized to give them only eternal life Jn 17:2-3
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many[Sheep] as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they[His sheep] might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
So its the Sheep referred to here Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The Gift is limited to the Sheep, and they are eternally secure !
14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
And its only a Gift given to some of mankind, known as Gods Sheep John 10:26-30
26 ;But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
Jesus in the Covenant engagement is authorized to give them only eternal life Jn 17:2-3
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many[Sheep] as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they[His sheep] might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
So its the Sheep referred to here Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The Gift is limited to the Sheep, and they are eternally secure !
If it is the gift, how can it be a component of the gift? Is faith a component of itself?
brightfame52
Active Member
All the components of the Gift are a Gift duh Thats why the writer said things accompany the Gift of Salvation Heb 6:9
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things[plural] that accompany[join] salvation[singular], though we thus speak.
Now I believe Faith, Perseverance are some of things joined with salvation
So, when you received a gift that required batteries, and were given the batteries later, were the batteries a part of the gift or simply a component necessary for you to use the gift?
civic
Active Member
I posted this in the other thread on the topic
Here is a question no one has considered.
God hates divorce but allowed it because of the hardness of man’s heart.
Jesus is the bridegroom and husband we are His bride.
Would Jesus ever divorce His bride/ wife ?
Jesus would never sign any divorce papers or allow a divorce. He forgives , restores and Hus bride is without spot or wrinkle
Here is a question no one has considered.
God hates divorce but allowed it because of the hardness of man’s heart.
Jesus is the bridegroom and husband we are His bride.
Would Jesus ever divorce His bride/ wife ?
Jesus would never sign any divorce papers or allow a divorce. He forgives , restores and Hus bride is without spot or wrinkle
Complete
Active Member
Hello @civic,
The Terms, 'The Bride,' and 'The Body', refer to two separate companies, I believe.
'The Bride' being represented by those of Hebrews 11, of great faith, who sought for a city made without hands, like Abraham, who were 'overcomers' in their generation. Who sought for a better resurrection. They will reign with Christ for 1,000 yrs, along with the 'overcomers' of the tribulation period. They are not, 'The Body'. God does not mix His metaphors.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
The Terms, 'The Bride,' and 'The Body', refer to two separate companies, I believe.
'The Bride' being represented by those of Hebrews 11, of great faith, who sought for a city made without hands, like Abraham, who were 'overcomers' in their generation. Who sought for a better resurrection. They will reign with Christ for 1,000 yrs, along with the 'overcomers' of the tribulation period. They are not, 'The Body'. God does not mix His metaphors.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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