Doug Brents
Active Member
Your point is contradicted by Jesus' own words (John 15:2). You cannot be in Christ (in Me) and not be saved. So anyone who is in Christ who does not bear fruit will be cut off and burned up in Hell (John 15:6).
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brightfame52
Active Member
The saved cant and dont fall away, depart from the truth, only those who had a false profession, like the stony ground believers. Jesus mentioned them here Lk 8 13
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
But see, Jesus said they believe, however not with a regenerate heart, they still had a unregenerate hard stony heart, they going to fall away every time. a stony heart person is still unsaved.
Doug Brents
Active Member
It amazes me how you can read the clear Word and come away with such falsehood. They receive the Word and believe (have faith in) it. They even begin to grow, yet they do not yet have a root to keep them firm. So when temptations come, like the one who builds his house on sand, they are easily uprooted and they die. There is nothing in Luke 8 that says anything about the condition of their heart. The only ones whose heart is mentioned is the soil of the path (the only one of the four soils who was never saved) and the fertile soil (the only one of the soils that reaches Heaven).
brightfame52
Active Member
It amazes me you cant see my point illustrated by scripture. If one falls away from the truth, they were not saved.
synergy
Active Member
The point you made is that you're governed by reverse logic. Only those who are elevated can fall. Try falling while you're laying flat on the ground. Your assertions say that you can. That's reverse logic.
Learn basic logic and then we can talk. Ok?
Fall away from what?
synergy
Active Member
Only he who already had the truth can fall away from it. That's logic. You say the exact opposite which is reverse logic. I can't believe I have to explain this to you.
Learn basic logic and then we can talk logically. Ok? Until then...Toodles...
Doug Brents
Active Member
Is it possible to be "in Christ" and not be saved?
brightfame52
Active Member
If they fall away from the truth, apostasies, they were not saved to begin with
brightfame52
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
If they fall away they were never saved in the first place
brightfame52
Active Member
It depends on what you mean by being in Christ If you mean being in Him as one who has been born again and believed, the answer is no.
Doug Brents
Active Member
In saying this,
you contradict yourself when you say,
You cannot have it both ways. Either they were in the faith/in Christ/saved, (as Scripture says), or they were not saved (as you say). I will trust Scripture over you every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Then you have no leg to stand upon with your statement that people who fall away were never saved, becauseJ as I pointed out about John 15:2, it clearly says that these people were "in Christ" and then are cut away bound for Hell's fire.
brightfame52
Active Member
If they fall away from the truth, apostasies, they were not saved to begin with
brightfame52
Active Member
If you mean being in Him as one who has been born again and believed, the answer is no.
Doug Brents
Active Member
You repeat the same statements which again are contradictory.
Yes, to be in Christ is to be saved. to be born again, to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And John 15:2 states clearly that those who are IN HIM but bear no fruit are cut off from Him and sent to Hell's fire. You cannot dispute this.
Yet you still say repeat your own contention (which is NOT Biblical) that all who fall away from the truth were not saved to begin with. It is not possible to fall away from something of which you were never a part. The definition of "apostasy" is the abandonment or renunciation of a belief. You cannot renounce or abandon what you never held.
Complete
Active Member
'In Whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in Whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'
(Eph 1:13-14)
Hello @Doug Brents:
It took a Divine revelation to the Apostle Paul, as The Lord's Prisoner, at the end of the approx. 40yr Acts period, following the rejection by the nation of Israel, both in the land, and in the diaspora, of their Messiah (Acts 28), to make the truth concerning The Church of The Body of Christ known, and to establish it. So to dismiss, and merge it with what came before, as you have done, is detrimental to truth.
The truth concerning the church which is the body of Christ had also been 'hid in God' since the world began, until that unveiling (Eph. 3:9), so was not the subject of previous revealed truth.
Those who are brought into the church which is the body of Christ, of which Christ Himself is the Head, are saved and sealed, 'in Christ,' with 'the holy Spirit of promise' at the moment that they believe, and that is the guarantee of 'the redemption of the purchased possession', 'unto the praise of His glory'. That is the truth concerning the eternal security of the members of the church which is the Body of Christ.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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synergy
Active Member
Learn basic logic and then we can talk logically. Ok? Until then...Toodles...
brightfame52
Active Member
If you mean being in Him as one who has been born again and believed, the answer is no.
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