Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[brightfame52]

Calvinists have incorporated several Hindu beliefs into their mindset. Both religions have their own version of Enlightenment and Caste System beliefs. You're talking about calvinist Enlightenment. Tell us more about this calvinist enlightenment.

They heard the Truth of their [possessed] salvation and following the hearing they believed. However they were already saved, of God, when they heard. Its simple as that. How can it be YOUR SALVATION if you are lost and dont possess salvation ? Duh

 

[brightfame52]

He apparently cannot read with any level of comprehension.

For @brightfame52 , the sentence, "By your mother you also, when you heard the call to dinner, the good news of your hunger satiation, and believed her, were given a seat at the dinner table," would mean he had already eaten before she called him.

They heard about and trusted in and believed the good news about the salvation they possessed. The words your are genitive possessive.

 

[Jim]

They heard about and trusted in and believed the good news about the salvation they possessed. The words your are genitive possessive.

So what? There is no time element associated with it. But there is a time element associated with the word "when". It clearly indicates that the sealing with the promised Holy Spirit occurs after having heard the word of truth and having believed in Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

So what? There is no time element associated with it. But there is a time element associated with the word "when". It clearly indicates that the sealing with the promised Holy Spirit occurs after having heard the word of truth and having believed in Jesus.

The time element is Gods timing, when its time for an elect vessel of mercy to believe the Gospel of their salvation, He regenerates them, brings them under the preaching of the Gospel and works faith in their minds and heart to believe. Timing is Gods business. In His Purposes there is a time to be born or born again Ecc 3:1-2

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Paul was born in due time, when it pleased God 1 Cor 15 8

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

 

[brightfame52]

So what? There is no time element associated with it. But there is a time element associated with the word "when". It clearly indicates that the sealing with the promised Holy Spirit occurs after having heard the word of truth and having believed in Jesus.

The sealing by the Spirit isnt regeneration, or the new birth. Also the hearing of the Gospel requires spiritual life, man by nature cannot hear spiritually the word of God Jesus said Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil,

While under the power of the devil, which we all are by nature, we cannot hear Gods word, spiritually.

So when the Eph are said to hear the word of God or truth Eph 1:13 they had been born again and no longer under the power of the devil as they are by nature. The hearing in Eph 1:13 isnt just a physical hearing with a physical ear, you do realize that dont you ?

 

[Jim]

The time element is Gods timing, when its time for an elect vessel of mercy to believe the Gospel of their salvation, He regenerates them, brings them under the preaching of the Gospel and works faith in their minds and heart to believe. Timing is Gods business. In His Purposes there is a time to be born or born again Ecc 3:1-2

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Paul was born in due time, when it pleased God 1 Cor 15 8

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Stupid reply!! None of that has anything to do with the logical rendering of the sentence structure of Ephesians 1:13.

 

[brightfame52]

Stupid reply!! None of that has anything to do with the logical rendering of the sentence structure of Ephesians 1:13.

You do realize the hearing in Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This hearing isnt with the unregenerate physical ear, but a spiritual hearing given by the Spirit, and then sealed by the Spirit.

 

[Jim]

The sealing by the Spirit isnt regeneration, or the new birth. Also the hearing of the Gospel requires spiritual life, man by nature cannot hear spiritually the word of God Jesus said Jn 8:43

You are technically correct. The sealing is not the same thing as regeneration. However, the sealing occurs at the same instant as regeneration. In a similar manner, being given the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit is technically not the same as being regenerated, being born again; however, it happens at the same instant in time.

And your comment about hearing requiring spiritual life is a bogus Calvinist doctrine. It once again denies God's ability to communicate with the unregenerated, an absolute heresy.

 

[civic]

They heard about and trusted in and believed the good news about the salvation they possessed. The words your are genitive possessive.

just like his analogy, impossible.

 

[MTMattie]

They heard about and trusted in and believed the good news about the salvation they possessed. The words your are genitive possessive.

Who cares if The words your are genitive possessive.

Who needs or whould need a gramatical description of all things biblical

The only people who do that are either those who do not understand or want to prove to someone that you know better therefore you cannot be wrong.

Guess what.... it does not work.

The messages and the stories ( including the parables) are simply written for common folk. Otherwise, there was no use in them being at all

 

[brightfame52]

You are technically correct. The sealing is not the same thing as regeneration. However, the sealing occurs at the same instant as regeneration. In a similar manner, being given the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit is technically not the same as being regenerated, being born again; however, it happens at the same instant in time.

And your comment about hearing requiring spiritual life is a bogus Calvinist doctrine. It once again denies God's ability to communicate with the unregenerated, an absolute heresy.

The sealing is post regeneration and hearing. The point is, the hearing requires regeneration, salvation. Thats why it reads, you heard the Gospel of Your Salvation, Your Salvation is Genitive Possessive, you cant get around that. Salvation isnt being offered, made available, its a reality and so its being heard as good news

 

[brightfame52]

@MTMattie

Who cares if The words your are genitive possessive.

The Holy Spirit does, I do,

 

[Jim]

@MTMattie



The Holy Spirit does, I do,

Yes, but unlike you, the Holy Spirit knows what he is talking about.

 

[synergy]

They heard the Truth of their [possessed] salvation and following the hearing they believed. However they were already saved, of God, when they heard. Its simple as that. How can it be YOUR SALVATION if you are lost and dont possess salvation ? Duh

The concept of enlightenment in Hinduism and Calvinism contain multiple similarities, especially in the idea of awakening to truth or a higher reality. Both spiritual awakenings are entirely by God's grace. Both traditions see humans as trapped in some form of delusion. Enlightenment in both views involves awakening to reality and being set free from this bondage. In both, true enlightenment leads to a radical change in how one sees reality, and this affects behavior, emotions, and priorities.

 

[JLB]

You sound like a broken record

Because you have never been able to answer this question.

Maybe because you know your answer puts your false belief system in checkmate.

 

[brightfame52]

Because you have never been able to answer this question.

Maybe because you know your answer puts your false belief system in checkmate.

I have answered that same broken record question for 3 years now, maybe more.

 

[JLB]

Why don't you ask that of @brightfame52 ? He is the one who doesn't believe that.

I did. I responded to you by mistake. Sorry.

 

[JLB]

They heard the Truth of their [possessed] salvation

When does a Calvinist possess salvation?

 

[civic]

@MTMattie



The Holy Spirit does, I do,

if that were true you would not ADD to scripture all of the time.

 

[civic]

When does a Calvinist possess salvation?

well in his personal and unbiblical theology it was before creation but most calvinists do not believe such nonsense. I know I never did as a calvinist.