Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Blessed]

Those who believe a Christian can "lose" salvation do not understand the nature of salvation itself. When a man is saved by God's grace, he is given the gift of faith, according to Eph 2:8

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast.

God delivers faith to the heart and prompts our confession of faith by means of His Spirit.

6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
Galatians 4:6

Once the Spirit of God enters a man, He changes the man's nature forever, making him alive with the indwelling of God's spirit:

16 it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Romans 8:16.

 

[Jim]

The work of God

thank you

Its not your work that saves you, Its Gods work

amen.. thank you for proving me right..

It was Jesus' answer to their question, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"

Jesus answered them correctly, telling them the work of God that they must do. God doesn't believe for them.

Your view of all of this makes Jesus a deceiver by not answering their question correctly. Believing is a work, though not a work of law which Paul spoke against. Every verse that you posted that speaks of believing in God, i.e., having faith in God, says that salvation, eternal life, comes through the work of God of believing.

Thanks for proving me correct.

 

[civic]

Here is Barnes on John 6:29- this is the work of God that you believe

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.

Vincent's Word Studies
Believe
Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews' question contemplates numerous works. Jesus' answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that "this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works."

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 29. - Christ's reply really solves the great problem which had long perplexed the schools of Palestine, and often, and even to the present hour, is dividing into two hostile camps the Christian Church. Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God. Observe, not "works," but "work" - the one work which is the germ and the consummation of all the partial workings which are often made substitutes for it. There is "one work" which God would have man do. Jesus admits that there is something to do (ποιεῖν) - there is a labour, an effort of the will needed to do what God requires; and this is evident enough as soon as this great work is described, viz. That ye believe on him whom he (the Father) sent; or, hath sent. Ἵνα πιστεύητε, here preferred by the R.T. to πιστεύσητε (see John 13:19), marks the simple fact and continuous act of believing with the effort tending to such result; while the aorist would have pointed to one definite act of faith (see Westcott).. To "believe on him," to habitually entrust one's self to the power and grace of Christ, to make a full moral surrender of the soul to the Lord, includes in itself all other work, and is in itself the great work of God. "It is the Christian answer to the Jewish question" (Thoma). "Faith is the life of works, works the necessity of faith" (Westcott). "Faith is the highest kind of work, for by it man gives himself to God, and a free being can do nothing greater than give himself:

 

[Jim]

Those who believe a Christian can "lose" salvation do not understand the nature of salvation itself. When a man is saved by God's grace, he is given the gift of faith, according to Eph 2:8

Those who believe as you do not understand the nature of faith itself, i.e., believing in God.

 

[MTMattie]

It was Jesus' answer to their question, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"

Jesus answered them correctly, telling them the work of God that they must do. God doesn't believe for them.

Your view of all of this makes Jesus a deceiver by not answering their question correctly. Believing is a work, though not a work of law which Paul spoke against. Every verse that you posted that speaks of believing in God, i.e., having faith in God, says that salvation, eternal life, comes through the work of God of believing.

Thanks for proving me correct.

Ok.... I hate to broach this subject but can you clarify " having faith in God, says that salvation, eternal life, comes through the work of God of believing."

How does the work of God (of believing) relate to the faith OF Jesus, or doesn't it?

 

[Dizerner]

Paul directly calls faith a work:

remembering without ceasing your work of faith (1 Thess. 1:3 NKJ)

and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, (2 Thess. 1:11 NKJ)

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It was Jesus' answer to their question, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"

yes, and sadly you seem to have failed to understand like those disciples who left him

What works must WE DO

"IT is the work of God"

interpretating

You can not do any works.. even your repentance and faith is not something you can do without the work of God in your life

Jesus answered them correctly, telling them the work of God that they must do. God doesn't believe for them.

lol

I want you to read this to yourself. If you can read it without laughing at the mistake you just made.. Well then i am not sure I can help you

Jesus is telling them the WORK OF GOD THEY MUST DO.

I mean seriously.

its one thing to say remission of sin happens at water baptism, then deny you believe we are saved through water baptism, its another to say we must do the work Jesus said is Gods work

Your view of all of this makes Jesus a deceiver by not answering their question correctly.

No. Jesus answered correctly

Even your faith is not your work.. Paul agrees. as he said in eph 2 8 - 9 that it is by Grace we have been saved through faith not of works..

faith is not a work..

Believing is a work, though not a work of law which Paul spoke against. Every verse that you posted that speaks of believing in God, i.e., having faith in God, says that salvation, eternal life, comes through the work of God of believing.

Paul said otherwise.

and jesus said its Gods work so either way. your in error

Thanks for proving me correct.

in your own mind.

 

[Blessed]

Those who believe as you do not understand the nature of faith itself, i.e., believing in God.

Demons do believe in God, as indicated in the Bible, specifically in James 2:19, which states, "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!"

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Paul directly calls faith a work:

remembering without ceasing your work of faith (1 Thess. 1:3 NKJ)

and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, (2 Thess. 1:11 NKJ)

no

what he said is our works are based on faith

we do good deeds because we have faith and trust God.. hence our works are works of faith

working to merit salvation is not a work of faith. its a work of merit

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Here is Barnes on John 6:29- this is the work of God that you believe

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.

Vincent's Word Studies
Believe
Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews' question contemplates numerous works. Jesus' answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that "this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works."

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 29. - Christ's reply really solves the great problem which had long perplexed the schools of Palestine, and often, and even to the present hour, is dividing into two hostile camps the Christian Church. Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God. Observe, not "works," but "work" - the one work which is the germ and the consummation of all the partial workings which are often made substitutes for it. There is "one work" which God would have man do. Jesus admits that there is something to do (ποιεῖν) - there is a labour, an effort of the will needed to do what God requires; and this is evident enough as soon as this great work is described, viz. That ye believe on him whom he (the Father) sent; or, hath sent. Ἵνα πιστεύητε, here preferred by the R.T. to πιστεύσητε (see John 13:19), marks the simple fact and continuous act of believing with the effort tending to such result; while the aorist would have pointed to one definite act of faith (see Westcott).. To "believe on him," to habitually entrust one's self to the power and grace of Christ, to make a full moral surrender of the soul to the Lord, includes in itself all other work, and is in itself the great work of God. "It is the Christian answer to the Jewish question" (Thoma). "Faith is the life of works, works the necessity of faith" (Westcott). "Faith is the highest kind of work, for by it man gives himself to God, and a free being can do nothing greater than give himself:

I see it differently

While Jesus did tell them they had to trust him.

He told them it is not their work, it was the work of God.

so in essence, he tried to show them, there is nothing they can do. it is all of God.. Lest anyone should boast

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Those who believe as you do not understand the nature of faith itself, i.e., believing in God.

actually we do

Faith is a trust or assurance

where does your faith lie

do you trust God have assurance in him

or do you trust self have assurance in what you are able to do with your works.

faith is not the issue. it is where our faith is placed

 

[Dizerner]

He told them it is not their work, it was the work of God.

so in essence, he tried to show them, there is nothing they can do. it is all of God.. Lest anyone should boast

This is exactly how Calvinists interpret the verse.

Because they want to eliminate actual free will and promote monergism.

But monergism isn't grace, it's spiritual rape—

We see the "work" was to believe in Jesus, not having God believe for us.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Ok.... I hate to broach this subject but can you clarify " having faith in God, says that salvation, eternal life, comes through the work of God of believing."

How does the work of God (of believing) relate to the faith OF Jesus, or doesn't it?

Because the work of God brings you to faith

1. the work of the cross
2. The work of the HS in convicting you of sin righteousness and judgement
3. The work of God bringing people into your life to help you understand
4. the work of thousands of years putting his word together.

everything that is required for you to repent (change your thinking) and come to faith in christ.

ie. you did not come to this all on your own.. \

however, it is not as calvin says, not because you were regenerated.

God worked on me for months

 

[Dizerner]

@brightfame52

Can you explain to the Free Gracers here how believing they choose Christ from their own volition is a work of merit?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

This is exactly how Calvinists interpret the verse.

I could care less what calin thinks or believes

its what the word says.

Because they want to eliminate actual free will and promote monergism.

No. Free will is not removed.

the work of God acts on your directly. and you have free will to chose to believe, or remain in unbelief and walk away

the people in John 6 (many of them) chose freely to walk away.

they failed to react to the work of God

But monergism isn't grace, it's spiritual rape—

I am not here to discuss isms.

I am here to discuss the word of God. you want to be blinded by i9sms, thats on you

We see the "work" was to believe in Jesus, not having God believe for us.

No. we see the work OF GOD was to hel;p bring us to faith

lest anyone should boast.

Me trusting in the work of another is me trusting them and their work.. I can not boast or take credit for that, the honor and boasting goes to the one trusted.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

@brightfame52

Can you explain to the Free Gracers here how believing they choose Christ from their own volition is a work of merit?

once again

there is no such things as free grace, it was paid for on the cross.

just because you reject Gods payment in full. don't mock us you want to pay for your gift. feel free.. But you will nto like Gods reaction.

and brightframe is one one you should be looking for guidance on..

 

[synergy]

This is exactly how Calvinists interpret the verse.

Because they want to eliminate actual free will and promote monergism.

But monergism isn't grace, it's spiritual rape—

We see the "work" was to believe in Jesus, not having God believe for us.

Yes. I was about to say that he sounds so much like our friend @Kermos.

 

[civic]

I see it differently

While Jesus did tell them they had to trust him.

He told them it is not their work, it was the work of God.

so in essence, he tried to show them, there is nothing they can do. it is all of God.. Lest anyone should boast

no he didn't say its God doing the work He said its the work of God, the work required by God.

 

[civic]

This is exactly how Calvinists interpret the verse.

Because they want to eliminate actual free will and promote monergism.

But monergism isn't grace, it's spiritual rape—

We see the "work" was to believe in Jesus, not having God believe for us.

spot on

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you, @GodsGrace ,

I have often said that we who are in agreement, never disagree about Jesus. We may disagree on silly little stuff like what works are or if baptism actually saves or things like that.

We ARE in the same book.... mostly on the same page.... approaching the same paragraph of our personal faiths.

What I cannot stand are those that, as you say, corrupt the teachings of Jesus by twisting them out of recognizable shape, and those who follow a very modern translation of the bible that they gelieve. Such as the NWT that wists John 1 from In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God to.... In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

A god... little g? A god ???? which makes the JWs polytheism believers...

Anyway, I digress. You get the idea.

I love you all, my brothers and sisters....... the fight is on...... in more ways then one.

Question @GodsGrace

Are you needing to work with a cell phone right now due to computer issues? I have seen you mention something
or maybe I misunderstood....

Anyway... just so you know... and all.... they make a small , actual keyboard to use use with cells. Some fold in half others are
flat but if you are needing to use your phones and cannot handle typing on them... they are not over expensive.

I think Amazon has them for like $25 to $35 range

Hi sis,,,,thanks for thinking of me.

No. No problem with the computer.
My brother and family are visiting from NY and they're getting me tuckered out!

I DO need a computer to type and if I'm on the cell, I sometimes complain about it...but I use the cell very rarely.
Very rarely. LOL

A foldable keyboard sounds funny to me.
My good ole' sturdy one is great....I don't have to wait up for it to do what I tell it to!!

Be back in a few days.