Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[synergy]

civic currently believes OSAS. Just an fyi.

Nobody's perfect. Many have issues with me because I'm ok with infant baptisms and that I defend James 2:24 so much.

 

[MTMattie]

@synergy

I find it so disheartening at times to read how some corrupt the teachings of our Lord.
And also Paul,,,,who taught exactly what Jesus taught,,,,of course.

Man has made a mockery of God's word and cheapened the sacrifice of Jesus.

Am unable to post right now and am thankful for those on this forum that uphold what Jesus taught and what is written in the NT....
You, @JLB @ProDeo @Jim @MTMattie and others not mentioned that respect what the NT plainly teaches.

Thank you, @GodsGrace ,

I have often said that we who are in agreement, never disagree about Jesus. We may disagree on silly little stuff like what works are or if baptism actually saves or things like that.

We ARE in the same book.... mostly on the same page.... approaching the same paragraph of our personal faiths.

What I cannot stand are those that, as you say, corrupt the teachings of Jesus by twisting them out of recognizable shape, and those who follow a very modern translation of the bible that they gelieve. Such as the NWT that wists John 1 from In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God to.... In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

A god... little g? A god ???? which makes the JWs polytheism believers...

Anyway, I digress. You get the idea.

I love you all, my brothers and sisters....... the fight is on...... in more ways then one.

Question @GodsGrace

Are you needing to work with a cell phone right now due to computer issues? I have seen you mention something
or maybe I misunderstood....

Anyway... just so you know... and all.... they make a small , actual keyboard to use use with cells. Some fold in half others are
flat but if you are needing to use your phones and cannot handle typing on them... they are not over expensive.

I think Amazon has them for like $25 to $35 range

 

[MTMattie]

Here is an idea....

Would it not be nice to have a dedicated thread

civic currently believes OSAS. Just an fyi.

All I can say is I wish I did. It would be easier to stand up to those who challenge my faith and try to convince me I am doing it all wrong and not nor would be saved.

 

[civic]

civic currently believes OSAS. Just an fyi.

I believe Eternal life is Eternal, not temporal. God saves, not man.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So you think that God's Grace is only God's Mercy. Where do you think our minds and volition come from if not from God's Grace to us? Everything that God has given us is part of His Grace. Your false dichotomy of Grace versus obedience is making you lose credibility amongst us.

No I think Gods grace is his grace. not some trumped up grace plus works nonsense

1. it is not of works
2. If you try to work, it incurs debt, not Grace
3. It is either of grace or it is of works. but it can not be both

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK
4. I was saved by grace period. But through faith. Not of works. you want to boast feel free. count me out
5. Grace is a gift of God. which makes salvation a gift of God that can not be earned by works.
Eph 2: 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)
6. Not even by my good deeds can I be saved. but by Gods mercy
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Your attempt to force your terminology on us will not work.

Your attempt to add works to grace will not work. scripture not only refutes it, but it rejects it

You have tried to change James' wording from "the Faith" (in the Greek) to "that Faith" and I called you out on that. It didn't work then and it won't work now. The sooner you realize that the better for you.

No. "the faith" refers to the faith that James spoke of.

James mentioned people who said they had faith but had no works.

He then asked the question, Can "the faith" that he just spoke of. save these people

But you pit james against the verses I just posted. and in doing so cause the word of God to contradict itself.

thats on you bro not me

My believe in james agrees with the passages above, they are not at odds with each other.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So that proves that we must make use of our God-Graced God-given volitions. That's where our obedience comes in. So stop with your Grace vs obedience false dichotomy.

those things are not getting baptized. Doing good deeds. obeying Gods commands.

they are all required to repent and recieve christ.

I have never seen anyone twist as much as you do in a feeble attempt to convince yourself your right.

It will not fool me

Salvation.

You want to keep barking against things that were given up 2000 years ago?

yeah, You want to continue with things that happened for the last 4000 years. and think your works, your obedience makes you right with God.

I worry that if jesus came today, how would you react

like the religious jew. who you resemble

You're really losing whatever credibility you have left.

yawn.

its not about me, its about the word of God

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

False. Good works are not works of the Law.

yet works of the law are good works.

Obedience to any Command God has ever given is good works..

So you think that it's the Bible's fault that it "cannot agree with itself".

The bible does agree with itself if interpreted properly.

its why the bible can be trusted. and why we can use it to determine if someone is saying something, if it comes from God or not

That's exactly what happens to whomever values their presuppositions above what the Bible clearly says.

Like you?

They sacrifice the words of the Bible on the altar of their presuppositions.

yes. and you have been exposed as doing that very thing this morning

so read these words to yourself and take your own advise.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

John 6:27 Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal." 28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."

The work of God

thank you

Its not your work that saves you, Its Gods work

amen.. thank you for proving me right..

 

[Dizerner]

Nobody's perfect.

That wasn't the point.

It's about "what the NT plainly teaches."

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

False. It is possible to do charitable works and merit nothing in return.

Your right. But a true believer does them out of love, not expecting anything in return.. But God reward them anyway

(Luke 6:35) But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.

False. Paul associates doing good works with eternal life.

Yes he does

Those who HAVE ETERNAL LIFE WILL do good works.

if we trust God with our eternity. I think we will trust God with some things here on earth. don't you?

(Rom 2:6) who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

yes.. Descriptive not prescriptive

False. It's you who can't see any difference between works of the Law and charitable works.

Actually it is you who can't see the difference between any work of merit and works of love

First you said that "your bible can not agree with itself" and now you say it does? You're sounding incoherent. At least get your story straight if you are ever to be believed.

dude, you are so far out there you can not even read properly. You read what I say like you read the word of God. you read what you want to dee.

let me try one more time.

YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THER WORD causes the bible to contradict itself.

now. can youi understand, or do I have to speak slower or S P E L L I T O U T so you can understand?

False. You're projecting your faults again, as evidenced by the verses I quoted.

the verses you posted in no way refute anything i have said. but in fact cause paul and james to appose each other.

Are you anti-pauline as many others are?

 

[civic]

That wasn't the point.

It's about "what the NT plainly teaches."

Here is what Jesus and the Apostles plainly taught regarding faith and salvation.

πίστις, (a) faith, belief, trust, generally of the leaning of the entire human personality upon God or the Messiah in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness. The older meaning, intellectual conviction of certain truths, is often present. (In Eph. 1:15 [shorter text] εἰς = among); (b) with the article, the faith (in Lk. 18:8 perhaps the necessary faith or the faith that perseveres), the Christian faith, Ac. 6:7, 13:8, 16:5, 24:24, Gal. 1:23, 3:23, 6:10, Eph. 4:13, Jude 3, Jude 20, &c.; (c) as a psychological faculty, Heb. 11:1; (d) integrity, faithfulness, trustworthiness, loyalty, Mt. 23:23, Rom. 1:17 (?), Gal. 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:7; (e) a guarantee, Ac. 17:31.[1] Lexicon to the Greek New Testament.


Faith that saves demonstrated below.

Luke 19:5-10

5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, for so much as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

To save- it means to deliver out of danger

Salvation- refers to the activity which produces the state of safety

Savior- is reserved for the one who saves.

We sometimes talk about saving things but Jesus only used the word in with man whom He saved.

Luke 19:9- This is the only time Jesus used the word salvation and that was with Zacchaeus. Christ’s purpose was one of seeking and saving the lost. Zacchaeus was a rich tax collector who was looked down upon for his livelihood. He was despised by those around him. When Jesus approached him and Zacchaeus looked up at Him , Jesus asked him to use his house and Zacchaeus gladly came down and received Him. When they went into the house the multitude murmured and within a short visit Zacchaeus was repentant of his ill gains which was evidence of his new found faith in the Savior. Salvation is the power that takes hold of a person and remakes him.

Here are some verses that Jesus used the word save.

Luke 6:9- Jesus restored the withered hand

Luke 8:48- Jesus healed the woman with the issue of blood

Luke 8:50- Jesus raised Jairus daughter from the dead

Luke 17:19- Jesus cleansed the lepers

Luke 18:42- Jesus healed the blind

So as we can see to save means to completely remove or destroy those destructive forces. To restore all that had been lost. Salvation in the teaching of Jesus is the complete change from one condition to its opposite. Jesus confronted man with the reality of sin. The religious people of his day hated Him without a cause because they loved their sin. Jesus taught us to “repent toward God”(Matt 4:17) To believe in Me (John 6:28, 29) and “test Me”, will to do My will. ( John 7:17)

Eternal life is to know Christ ( John 17:3) Jesus said you are my disciples if you abide in Me. ( John 8:31, 32) Apart from Him I can do nothing.(John 15:5)

Faith is a conviction of the mind that Christ is God. Jesus said unless you believe that “ I AM” you will die in your sins.(John 8:24) Read the whole chapter. Paul declared one must confess Jesus is Lord(YHWH) to be saved and those who call upon Him will be delivered(Joel 2:32). Secondly it is a voluntary surrender to Him as Lord or Master of your life. By faith our mind trusts in God, our heart responds to His love and our will submits to the commands of God. Our life yields to obedience in our service to Him. Faith goes beyond reason, it believes without understanding why. ( Heb 11:1) Faith chooses to endure ill treatment (Heb 11:25) Faith accepts all things as a part of God will, Paul’s imprisonment.( Phil1:12) You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17) You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36) No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1) You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16) Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17) The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2) And finally Jesus alone is the author and finisher of our faith.(Heb 12:2)

hope this helps !!!

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

@synergy

I find it so disheartening at times to read how some corrupt the teachings of our Lord.
And also Paul,,,,who taught exactly what Jesus taught,,,,of course.

I find it just as diheartening when people like you and synergy corrupt the whole word of God. and mock the cross.

Man has made a mockery of God's word and cheapened the sacrifice of Jesus.

Your a woman. so it is not just men who do this

Am unable to post right now and am thankful for those on this forum that uphold what Jesus taught and what is written in the NT....
You, @JLB @ProDeo @Jim @MTMattie and others not mentioned that respect what the NT plainly teaches.

when will you and other uphold what Jesus taught. and respect the cross and stop mocking it?

 

[civic]

Jesus also said bear much fruit and prove to be My disciples.

The Abundant life one that is a fruitful life. We can learn many truths from Gods creation and the way He designed things to work.

God created plants to fruit and propagate themselves. Jesus cursed the fig tree. Why? It was green but did not bear fruit so He cursed the tree. A good tree brings forth good fruit. You will know them by their fruits. God is life and created man and plants to bring forth life. I came that you might have life and life abundantly. A fruitful life is Gods design for us. The Fruit of the Spirit in us is our evidence we have life (the Spiritual life, born of the Spirit) which God created us for His good works that He prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. We are Gods workmanship created for that purpose.

The parable of the sower in which the good soil produces much fruit. God did not create man, animals and plants to look good but to multiply, bear fruit, procreate. They(we) are agents of life to bring forth fruit, life. We are created in Gods image to bring forth life, to be fruitful and multiply.

It’s the nature of God to send, distribute, equip, empower and to set free. Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to accomplish this in our life. Jesus had to leave to give us the Holy Spirit. Jesus greatest thing He did as a leader of men was to leave. He removed Himself to give us His Spirit. And the result was to Be fruitful!

Sin brought forth death, unfruitfulness, thorns, thistles, labor etc….

Gods truth like water is designed to bring forth life/fruit. Truth is not an end to itself but the foundation for life. Fruit brings glory to God. Salvation is not the end game either but fruit in your life, good works. Faith without works/fruit is dead. James 2:17

Philippians 1:9-11
And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, 10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ; 11 having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

Titus 3:14
And our people must also learn to devote themselves to good works in order to meet the pressing needs of others, so that they will not be unfruitful.

James 3:18
Peacemakers who sow in peace reap the fruit of righteousness.

John 15:8
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Psalm 1:2-3
But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
Which yields its fruit in its season
And its leaf does not wither;
And in whatever he does, he prospers.

Ezekiel 47:12
Along both banks of the river, fruit trees of all kinds will grow. Their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. Each month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will be used for food and their leaves for healing.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Truth is from God and lies are from satan. This is the cosmic battle but the ultimate reality of the battle is that one leads to Life and the other leads to death.

The Parable of the Talents Matthew 25

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

hope this helps !!!

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Nobody's perfect. Many have issues with me because I'm ok with infant baptisms and that I defend James 2:24 so much.

I had my kids baptized or sprinkled as infants. and I defend james so much also.

is that why they are angry at me?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I believe Eternal life is Eternal, not temporal. God saves, not man.

I have come to understand OSAS as an anticalvinist term. I think I am going to stop using it.. and just speak of eternal security and eternal life. which the word says I have right here and right now. and it is knowledge of this fact that causes my faith to continue. not my deeds

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

That wasn't the point.

It's about "what the NT plainly teaches."

Amen

And lets not forget the OT. Paul told timothy as a child he knew how to get saved.. The only thing available when he was a child was the oT..

 

[civic]

I have come to understand OSAS as an anticalvinist term. I think I am going to stop using it.. and just speak of eternal security and eternal life. which the word says I have right here and right now. and it is knowledge of this fact that causes my faith to continue. not my deeds

yes so much baggage that goes with osas and other terms.

 

[Dizerner]

Romans 11, John 15, Hebrews 6 & 10 clearly teach that believers can fall away.

As do hundreds of other passages in both the NT and the OT.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Romans 11, John 15, Hebrews 6 & 10 clearly teach that believers can fall away.

As do hundreds of other passages in both the NT and the OT.

romans 11 is about nations (Israel and Gentiles) not individuals

John 15 is about fruit bearing. Not salvation. no unbelievers are involved

Hebrews 6 states emphaticially. if a person could fall away (itf it were possible) they can not get resaved. it is a warning t=given to jews wanting to go back to law. if you go back. You will nto be able to repent and come back (we would not.. Because our true faith has always been what we go back to. a dog returns to his vomit. because its what he is.

Hebrews 10 says hold fast your confession. is your confession real? or is it fake. Has nothign to do with people falling away or losing salvation.

this is how we interpret these passages to make the word agree. otherwise. The interpretation of these veses cause John, Paul and the author of Hebrews to be apposed to Jesus and paul in the following passages

in other words. if we use your interpretation of these verses then...

then paul is a liar
Jesus is a liar

I might as well throw my bible out. I can not trust it.

John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

yes so much baggage that goes with osas and other terms.

a reason I hate isms and terms.. lets just stick to the word