Well, let us see who needs to repent, I'll do a brief verse by verse of Romans 11, and prove that you are not understanding Paul's teaching. Coming soon.
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Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
let me spell it out to you in black and white
THE LORD CHASTENS THOSE WHO ARE HIS
lol. My deception?
You mean your self righteousness that you want to give God to pay for your sins?
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
amen,
when someone gives you a priceless gift that you could not earn. that is as valuable as eternal life with him.
Then you tend to want to do what you can to serve him
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
What is Grace ?
The order:
1. Grace from God in Jesus
2. Faith (our response)
3. Repentance
4. Fruits (obliged)
5. Salvation
6. Perseverance.
In that order and the order can't be broken.
Meaning, if Jesus would not have come, did not die on the cross, did not take away the sin of the world (John 1:29), we (gentiles by birth) all would die in our sins. Faith, repentance, fruits, perseverance would not bring us salvation. Without Jesus there is no grace thus no salvation in the first place. If you understand that it's not so hard to accept the words works and fruits as a logical result of being born again.
I don't doubt my salvation for one moment, I believe the Word and I can not imagine I would ever leave the faith, but the Lord insists on perseverance till the end. And for that I trust the word in Jude :
Jude 1:24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
And I asked Jesus the same prayer for me as He did for Peter.
Luke 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,
Luke 22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”
Never underestimate life, note what Jesus said : Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
once again
GRACE IS NOT FREE
its a misnomer
You want to earn grace. feel free to try. I will pray you can work hard as you can and somehow overcome by your own power.
but stop attacking those who understand they can;t overcome
Dizerner
Active Member
I don't want to earn grace, and I know I can't overcome without it.
Just let your false doctrine die.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
here we go. a guy focused on ISMS and not actually letting the person speak for himself.
You want to follow ISMS, feel free.
you want to talk to me, talk to me, do not put me under any ISMS
Gods grace is clearly Gods mercy
the fact you are alive here talking to me is by Gods grace. because we all deserve to be burning in hell right now
when you realise what the word actually means, then maybe you will see
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
yes we
those who have been saved, have been redeemed
Not those trying to get saved or get redeemed.
Dizerner
Active Member
You are defining free will actions as necessarily meritorious in nature.
That's just a logical fallacy—it's a non sequitur—the conclusion does not follow from the premises.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
yes
But first you have to be a part of that foundation..
God saves completely. he does not partially save.
as paul said, are you so foolish having begun in the spirit are you trying to perfect in the flesh.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
we have been through this before
points 4 and 6 are a result of grace. Not in order to recieve grace
points 2 and 3 are reversed. You will not have faith until you first repent (from unbelief)
and point 5 belongs in point 4.
points 4 and 6 are the results of the totality of grace, repentance, faith and salvation
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
yet your telling everyone here they have to,
and attacking the doctrine that says you can not..
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
no I am defining your gospel
Faithg plus works
The cross was not enough, He needs yuo to add your obedience if you want your sins forgiven in the end, and spend eternity with him.
thats your gospel in a nutshell
We were not there and neither were you. What we do know is that Christianity was there, the true religion of Jesus Christ that follow basically what we have in the NT, yet, without question false brethren had begun to infiltrate the churches of the saints.
Jude 1:4
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”Plus, we have the letters to the churches in Revelation 2,3, which reveals how the churches quickly became corrupt.
What we DO KNOW, that the Catholic/EOC with all of its man made doctrines/commandments is nothing like Paul and the apostles left the churches teaching; for we have the record in the scriptures of their doctrines and they are so far from what both of them teach. Both of them are more like teh Pharisees than NT teachings and Paul's epistles to the churches.
No denomination, the apostles of the Lord Jesus kept them at bay, but they STILL crept in, the devil sowed tares (his children) among the wheat, always has, always will, only to see the tares to totally take over just before the Lord comes.
I have enough, all I could endure, a lot of wasted precious time ~ that's why I know the RCC/EOC to be corrupt, by comparing them to the scriptures.
No, I do not, they have their own problems, but so much less than RCC. The word of God is the only means of being saved from heretical beliefs.
Fran, you have your right to believe that to be so, I do not. RCC is the most corrupt form of false religion since the Pharisees of our Lord's day ~ and even more corrupt than the Pharisees in my opinion.
You are more than welcome to prove me wrong, no problem, but I'm sure you would have a task that is above your knowledge to do.
Concerning the RCC teaching a true gospel, that speaks more of your lack of knowledge and the gospel that you trust in to be another gospel, if you think CC has an ounce of truth concerning the true gospel of Jesus Christ, you are in dire need of having your eyes open, and your need is above my power to help you, only the power of God can deliver you from such a strong delusion you are living under.
I'm coming back, since my dear wife is calling me for lunch. I DO want to come back and address more of your posts to me.
Read all the warnings against falling away and then describe what they mean.
Dizerner
Active Member
I'm literally not.
Your false logic and false presuppositions insist I am saying something I am not, and thus you misrepresent me.
That's the Gospel, we do not get to ignore Christ and his words with just one nanosecond of intellectual assent.
Your definition of grace eliminates free will altogether, because it adds to the Work of the Cross.
Why are you so wise and so humble that you accept Christ when someone else does not?
What could possibly be more gracious than God saving you despite your will?
MTMattie
Active Member
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
go back and read my posts. Been there done that..
Show me works in these verses..
the gospel
The gospel according to Jesus and Paul
then paul is a liar
Jesus is a liar
I might as well throw my bible out. I can nto trust it.
John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)
John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)
John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)
John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)
John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)
John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)
EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.
Sent from my iPad
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
You do not even understand what you are doing which is prety sad
So you have repented. you no longer think you HAVE to obey to be saved. to PERSEVERE to be saved. to do all these things to make sure you are saved?
Amen and praise God. you finally saw the light (Although I know you have not done this)
I have not ignored his words. why do you
No It is of free will
free will to chose to recieve him,, and through this., God making me his child
]
and free will to receive Gods love and KNOW he is trustworthy.
if you think you would freely walk away.. then I do not see how you can Know God. Because your saying God is not trustworthy and we would repent of our faith because of this
have you accepted christ? Fully? Has he saved yuo and given you all the things he promised to all who believe?
He did save me
why don;t you recieve his salvation by grace and stop working for it?
Here I gave it to someone else. You tell me, Show me works in these passages where Jesus and paul talk about Grace
The gospel according to Jesus and Paul
then paul is a liar
Jesus is a liar
I might as well throw my bible out. I can nto trust it.
John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)
John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)
John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)
John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)
John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)
John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)
EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.
Sent from my iPad
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