Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
This is speaking to gentiles as a group. Not individual believers.
you can't pull verses out of context. and try to make it fit to your belief system, then expect others to follow behind you..
we see right through it
Excellent Discussion on OSAS
- Thread starter civic
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you can't pull verses out of context. and try to make it fit to your belief system, then expect others to follow behind you..
we see right through it
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
wow oh wow..
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
no,
he said we will NEVER PRISH, and we HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
lol. go ahead and try to talk yourself out it.. the word stands
whoever believes will never die (john 3) they are not condemned (john 3) they have eternal life (john 3) they have passed from death to life (john 4) they shall not come to judgment (john 4) they will never hunger or thirst, They will live forever. They shall never be lost, they have eternal life they will never die, and they have Jesus promise he will raise them (john 6)
I can go on and on and on
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Hebrews said he can not be resaved again, if they fall away, they can not be renewed to repentance.
so one of his pet verses apposes even the ability of getting saved again
civic
Active Member
You mean he who believes will sometimes die
Thanks for Correcting what Jesus really meant to say
Oops
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
sad to think people actually would believe thisYou mean he who believes will sometimes die
Thanks for Correcting what Jesus really meant to say
Oops
civic
Active Member
Well reading this thread it’s obvious many do. As I sometimes like to say it’s very Sadducee.
You still don't get it. But I am not surprised. The distinction of an "if" statement and an "only if" is still, it seems, to be quite beyond your understanding.
@Dizerner
Romans 11:22 is very easy to understand in light of all scriptures, yet playing with sound bites as little children do with sand in building sand castles only to see it fall with the first little wind, or rain that may come.
Paul writing to Gentiles Christians showing them "the goodness and severity of God" ~ warns them of not continuing in God's goodness, and the consequences of not doing so, and the consequences of not doing so, is that they THE GENTILES as a nation, will be cut off JUST AS ISRAEL AS A NATION was!
This verse has not one thing to do with individual's gift of eternal life, that is a complete corruption of God's word by using mere sound bites, which is easy to deceive the simple man, who has no knowledge of the truth.
Israel AS A NATION has been cut off forever, and it is evident that the Gentiles will soon follow them with the second coming of Jesus Christ, they too shall be forever cut off AS A NATION. God's goodness will soon end for them, if it has not already ended, and we are on borrow time.
All of God's children said AMEN and Amen.
Your short post is a classic example of how the devil starts false teaching in the Church of Christ/God. You folks have no clue how to read the word of God and THEN give the correct sense, so there's a perfect flow of the truth from Genesis to Revelation.
Romans 11:22 is very easy to understand in light of all scriptures, yet playing with sound bites as little children do with sand in building sand castles only to see it fall with the first little wind, or rain that may come.
Romans 11:22
“Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.”Paul writing to Gentiles Christians showing them "the goodness and severity of God" ~ warns them of not continuing in God's goodness, and the consequences of not doing so, and the consequences of not doing so, is that they THE GENTILES as a nation, will be cut off JUST AS ISRAEL AS A NATION was!
This verse has not one thing to do with individual's gift of eternal life, that is a complete corruption of God's word by using mere sound bites, which is easy to deceive the simple man, who has no knowledge of the truth.
Israel AS A NATION has been cut off forever, and it is evident that the Gentiles will soon follow them with the second coming of Jesus Christ, they too shall be forever cut off AS A NATION. God's goodness will soon end for them, if it has not already ended, and we are on borrow time.
All of God's children said AMEN and Amen.
@Studyman
Sir, it is you that is not honest, maybe not purposely, that's not for me to judge, but you surely show that you are not capable of following others points very well, and you cannot take scriptures and expounds them very well.
For now I must move on. But, do not tempt me to not answer your work gospel, for I will defend Christ's gospel of free grace without the works of the law.
Listen at the snail calling the worm slimly. Studyman, I'm about to tell you have a nice life, I'm finish wasting time on someone who truly has no concept of what the truth is.
Sir, it is you that is not honest, maybe not purposely, that's not for me to judge, but you surely show that you are not capable of following others points very well, and you cannot take scriptures and expounds them very well.
For now I must move on. But, do not tempt me to not answer your work gospel, for I will defend Christ's gospel of free grace without the works of the law.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Dizerner
Active Member
I know the classic Calvinistic way around Romans 11, a terrible distortion and man-made eisegesis, just like they sinfully distort John 15 which clearly says branches in Christ can be cut off.
The branches are individual destinies that can be both grafted in and cut off. God did not cut off entire nations from the Gospel, it's not a thing, it never happened, and it violates both the internal and external context of Romans 11. And a single branch would not represent an entire nation, nor does the entire Gentile race stand by the singular faith of the addressed.
The two trees are not two nations but rather instead they are two spiritual systems, one in the tree of Christ, and one in the "wild olive tree," which is the rebellious nature of Adam. Thus one represents salvation not even remotely representing ethnic Israel which was just condemned in the preceding chapters as a source of salvation, as well as everywhere else in Scripture.
What is happening here is, the presupposition of OSAS is the predominant hermeneutic, such that every passage cannot by default ever speak against it, but must rather be twisted to fit OSAS no matter what.
And that "lens" of presupposition will never allow anything to ever contradict it, even if the face value consistently does.
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Dizerner
Active Member
No, the "cutting off entire nations as a group and grafting them back again" defense fails miserably, lol. See above.
Irresponsible distortion of Scripture designed to try to make OSAS look better.
There are different kinds and degrees of apostasy, as not all are the unpardonable sin.
Not an argument.
Jesus said very clearly what he said, and the lie of OSAS does not change the words.
Notice how the permissive nature of OSAS allows a person to think they can actually deny Christ and still be saved.
And "if" statement is simply a conditional statement. Many such statements do not necessarily contain the word "if". Mark 16:16 is such a statement.
Nearly every "whoever" in the Bible establishes such a statement of which there are over 120 such statements in the NT. But I will just leave it at that and let you figure it out.
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The Holy Spirit directed the apostle Paul to use the term adoption to describe the process by which God establishes a relationship with a man or woman who trusts Christ as the Savior:
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.
Romans 8:15–16
Notice how Paul capitalizes on the relational value of adoption. We are encouraged to think of our heavenly Father in the most intimate way, as a Daddy. This relationship is contrasted to one of fear, which commonly existed between a slave and his master. God is not simply putting up with us as a master would with slaves. God desires an intimate relationship with us. And He has taken it upon Himself to remove every possible barrier.
Paul echoes the same idea in his letter to the Galatians:
But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Galatians 4:4–5
We will never be unadopted by God.
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.
Romans 8:15–16
Notice how Paul capitalizes on the relational value of adoption. We are encouraged to think of our heavenly Father in the most intimate way, as a Daddy. This relationship is contrasted to one of fear, which commonly existed between a slave and his master. God is not simply putting up with us as a master would with slaves. God desires an intimate relationship with us. And He has taken it upon Himself to remove every possible barrier.
Paul echoes the same idea in his letter to the Galatians:
But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Galatians 4:4–5
We will never be unadopted by God.
Yes WOW!
It’s amazing what the scriptures actually teach, when you read them.
It’s called the fear of the Lord, which is what Christians desperately need in the Church in America.
Calvinism is the lie the serpent deceived Eve with.
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4
Go ahead and sin Eve, (Church) you won’t die. OSAS
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it! 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
Dizerner
Active Member
Actually, it's not, it's given in parallel.
There is a great danger in thinking of God as "just a really big human, just like a bigger version of one of us."
It takes away the sense of his authority, holiness and power.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
"Yes, I tell you... fear him!" — Jesus.
civic
Active Member
Amen it’s permanent just like my sons and daughters will always be my sons and daughters but with God it’s even greater
God does not intend for us to consider Him a stern Judge peering over the bench at the accused. Yet many believers have this very perception of Him. For some reason they never get out of the courtroom and into the family room. To them God is always a Judge, never a Father.
This view is so unfortunate. But even worse, it leads to doubting the doctrine of eternal security.
This view is so unfortunate. But even worse, it leads to doubting the doctrine of eternal security.
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