There is no power in the water and I have never said or suggested that there was.
Excellent Discussion on OSAS
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Eternally-Grateful
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This is specifically saying we must earn our salvation. and is in essence puts people under law.Ladies and gentlemen
It's and/and not and/or nor or/or
The order:
. Grace from God in Jesus
. Faith (our response)
. Repentance
. Fruits (obliged)
. Salvation
. Perseverance.
In that order and the order can't be broken.
the true order
Grace through the word (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word)
Repentance (we change from being a non believer, and rejecting God and being his enemy, to a place that we believe God and the words of grace he has shown us
Faith - Repentance must lead to faith. or else it we will not be saved (for by Grace we have been saved (a completed action) through faith - we will not trust God until we repent. so @ProDeo has the order backwards
Salvation - we have been saved from the penalty of sin, we have been justified, our debt is paid in full based on Christ's work on the cross, we are made new creatures. created in Christ..
Fruit - those who have been saved by Grace through their faith and NOT WORKS. in their new creation starts to trust God in other areas of their life. and they start serving and loving others as God loved them, which in turn, produces fruit.
Sanctification - Or Christian growth - Since we have already been perfected forever (justification) we are not being sanctified. Also a work of God. just as our salvation was. but takes steps of faith. Will happen in different speeds for different people. May have huge short term growth spirts. then can be minimal for times. and goes up and down. many people call this conditional sanctification. It is our daily walk.. Are we walking with God this day, or are things in this life taking up our time (worries, work, play, people etc)which will result in us not doing the things of the spirit. which is sin. (yes we will still sin in this state. because we have not yet been glorified) it is a race that will continue for a lifetime. and will not really be complete. but brings ut to be more like Christ.
Glorification - happens on resurrection day. when we receive new bodies. Although we will still continue to grow for eternity. Our ability to sin has ceased.
as far as persevering. We do not persevere. we can not.. Lets not give ourselves to much credit. Gods keeps us. Our faith is in him, not in self. As Jesus promised in John 6. He will lose no one.. and he will (not might) raise us on the last day (as apposed to having us delivered to him for judgment)
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Dizerner
Active Member
It's a particularly poor Free Gracer argument.
Eternal in quality not quantity, else it would need have existed forever.
Not to mention it doesn't accurately reflect the original languages, which is an indefinite age as an idiom for forever.
Dizerner
Active Member
lol no
civic
Active Member
the lyrics are written by you ?
I posted Peter's own words which detail who receives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The first Church of God under the New Priesthood observed the Passover, as Jesus defined, they were obedient to the "Feast of the Christ", Feast of Unleavened Bread" that Paul said to keep. They obeyed the Christ concerning the counting of days, and were gathered together in honor and respect to the God's Commandment. They already claimed "belief" in the Christ, even before HE was murdered. And yet they didn't receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit until after they "Yielded themselves" a servant to obey God.
I asked myself, why is this? Then the Spirit of Christ in Peter answered me and I posted his words for your review and examination. "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, "whom God hath given" to them that obey him."
But you didn't even acknowledge the Spirit of Christ in Peter at all, as if His Inspired Words didn't even exist. And went on to tell me that some group you belong to, you referenced as "we", had also received the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit, but by some other means.
It is for this reason that I asked you where in Scriptures you found another gospel apart from the Gospel Peter and Paul taught, whose words I posted.
My point, and Jesus' Point, and Paul's point, is that you can't understand Rom. 8:1, if you separate it from the rest of the Bible, and ignore the actual message Paul is promoting. This tactic of "using" select scriptures to justify various doctrines and philosophies, is taught to us by this world's religious system.
The Spirit of Christ has shown us this tactic, used by the "other voice" which existed in the garden God placed Eve in. Another voice who "Professed to know God" and even quoted "some" of God's Word. It's not a judgment against "you", it's a judgment against the tradition of this world's religious system to "use" this tactic, as a tool to promote philosophies that are exposed as falsehoods, when more of God's Word is considered.
The other voice in the garden of Eve's time, quoted one sentence from God, Word for Word.
Gen. 3: 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Well lets go back and see if God actually said what the serpent attributed to Him.
Gen. 2: 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "saying", Of every tree of the garden "thou mayest freely eat":
So there you go. Satan can now be said to be "a minister of righteousness" "teaching the Truth" about God. He can justify his teaching "by God's Own Words". He can create an entire religion, an entire philosophy and call it "the Gospel of God", based on this direct Quote from God. And if anyone questions or challenges his teaching, he can accuse them of "Not agreeing with Gen. 2: 16".
But even a child can see that if a man was to read the Holy scriptures himself, not just one verse, but the entire message God was promoting, he would see that the "voice" who "professed to know God", and even Quoted "some" of God's Word, was a deceiver. And the tactic he used, was for the purpose of deceiving.
This is why Jesus said to "Live By" Every Word of God, and why Paul said;
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
This is why I replied to you in the first place, telling you the truth that you can't understand anyone, and certainly not God, if you don't believe "ALL" of HIS Words are worthy of honor and respect.
I was snared by the same "tactic" in times past. Paul as well, and Peter too. The Pharisees also, used this same tactic to justify their disobedience to God.
We are told to turn away from these fleshy carnal tactics, and to understand that "ALL" of the Christ's Word are "Spirit and Truth".
This message is not meant to "offend", but for many who are snared by this tactic, they do get offended when they are shown. Even as I was. But if we repent, and Yield ourselves" from the heart, to believe that the Christ's Words are Spirit and Truth. Not just a few of His Sayings, but All of them, we can over come this world's religions, and become servants "of God's Righteousness", as Paul teaches.
This is Paul's message in Rom. 6, when all of his world's are considered.
Dizerner
Active Member
Yeah, I wrote the lyrics, and it's then generated by Suno.
The AI offers to make lyrics, or you can put your own in.
civic
Active Member
Good job !!!
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Grace is not free. It cost Jesus his 33 years of life on earth, and the cross..
No it is quanitity
Jesus said we will NEVER PERISH.
the fact you will NEVER PERISH, means essentially, you will live forever.
hence the term
you will never perish, and you have eternal life (will live forever) Jesus said this in John 3 and John 6, not to mention John 5 and the waters of eternal life in John 4
or we can just take Jesus at his word.
Again,
If I will never die, it means I will live forever. thats not quality that is quantity
civic
Active Member
never means it can happen
eternal means temporal
life means death
c'mon get with the program
I have never said that forgivness of sin happens through or because of water baptism. I have stated and I do believe that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is the occasion, the instant in the life of the repentant believer, that God forgives his sin and gives him the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Again, if you cannot understand that distinction, then I simply cannot help you.
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Dizerner
Active Member
never means it can happen
eternal means temporal
life means death
c'mon get with the program
If OSAS were true, the word "if" would not be in the Bible.
Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity;
but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness.
Otherwise you also will be cut off. (Rom. 11:22 NKJ)
civic
Active Member
So what you are saying is the 11 disciples/ Apostles could lose their salvation correct ?
Peter, James, John and Paul could lose their salvation right ?
Let’s test your argument
Dizerner
Active Member
They all DID lose their salvation, lol, Jesus said they would fall away that very night because they denied Christ before men.
But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. (Matt. 10:33 NKJ)
Remember Jesus said to Peter, "When you return again, strengthen your brethren."
Thank God that the apostates can still repent and rededicate their lives.
Dizerner
Active Member
You will never perish while you have the eternal life.
The "eternal" here is an aspect that does not define further specification such as "unchangeably eternal."
It's like saying the definition of "life" is not "death" so that means no living thing can die, because then it would not be life.
The word "life" does not further specify the unchangeableness of the attribute.
Eternal alone does not specify the changeableness of the attribute, rather it's current characteristics.
civic
Active Member
Wow you believe every time you sin you lose your salvation ?
Then repent and become saved again ?
Works salvation
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
I just do not get the mindset of people who claim they trust God. yet in reality. do not even understand what God said.. and can't get out of their own way (works)never means it can happen
eternal means temporal
life means death
c'mon get with the program
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
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